Cycling UK Forum

Jdsk wrote: ↑29 May 2024, 9:33am That's atorvastatin, not metformin.

Jonathan

Ill find that and scan

"Metformin and Specific Food Interactions
Food choices matter, don’t they? More so when they interact with drugs like Metformin.

1. Metformin and Grapefruit Interactions
Grapefruits are beneficial but could they turn troublesome with Metformin? Several drugs don’t mix well with grapefruit. But, as of now, there’s no clear evidence that grapefruit messes up Metformin. More research is needed here.

How Grapefruit Affects Metformin
An old study on non-diabetic rats showed grapefruit juice might trigger a potentially fatal condition called lactic acidosis when mixed with Metformin. Yet, we don’t have any human case studies indicating a similar reaction with Metformin and grapefruit so far."

https://pharmeasy.in/blog/diet-alert-fo ... metformin/

I would rather be safe than sorry, 50 years ago smoking was recommended by doctors

1. What is Metformin?
Metformin is a medication prescribed to treat type 2 diabetes. People with type 2 diabetes cannot use insulin normally. This means they cannot control their blood sugar. Metformin helps people with type 2 diabetes control their blood sugar in a number of ways; These include reducing the amount of sugar the body absorbs from food, reducing the amount of sugar produced by the liver, and increasing the body's response to insulin the body makes on its own.
Although very rare, Metformin can cause a very serious and life-threatening condition called lactic acidosis. Therefore, people with liver, kidney or heart problems should avoid metformin.


https://www.vinmec.com/en/news/health-n ... -diabetes/

So there isn't any current reputable advice to avoid grapefruit with metformin?

Jonathan

AND AMLODIPINE

I trust the doctors, will scan my Metformin when I get it as well

Pinhead wrote: ↑29 May 2024, 9:04am Remember fruit contains sugars, from someone who has gone from 22 stone to 13s 11lb

13st 11lb is heavier than I've ever been in my life, I'm currently 11st 5lb.

Sugar in fruit is not the same as sugar in cakes & chocolate etc, because it's locked away in the cellular structure of the fruit and less available to the digestive system. Fruit only counts as a source of free sugar if you break up the cells by juicing it.

From the SACN:

"Free sugars are defined as all monosaccharides and disaccharides added to foods by the manufacturer, cook or consumer, plus sugars naturally present in honey, syrups and unsweetened fruit juices. Under this definition, lactose naturally present in milk and milk products and sugars contained within the cellular structure of foods would be excluded."

Pinhead wrote: ↑29 May 2024, 9:04am Which fruits have the highest amount of sugar?

Pomegranates.
Grapes.
Mangos.
Apples.
Sweet cherries.
Oranges.
Pears.

Which fruit has the lowest sugar?

Strawberries. Strawberries, like many other berries, are often high in fiber and contain very little sugar. ...
Peaches. Although they taste sweet, a medium sized peach only contains around 13 g of sugar .
Blackberries. ...
Lemons and limes. ...
Honeydew melon. ...
Oranges. ...
Grapefruit. ... NOT (AS can be DANGEROUS) IF YOU ARE ON SOME MEDICATIONS for diabetes "METFORMIN"
Avocados.

I can see that list's well thought out, it categorises oranges as among both the highest and the lowest.

(IIRC the info I've seen relating to grapefruit is that it slows the rate that the body excretes drugs, so it's the equivalent of taking an overdose.)

Put on a bit of weight when my first wife was very ill about 4 or 5 years ago and have had several goes at shedding it. I know how to do it having once been nearly 16st and lost 48lb to reach 12 st in 30 weeks , but now seem to lack the willpower after several false starts.
Went to see the quack today and asked about the weight loss jab. At BMI 28 you're too thin apparently, you cant get the jab from the NHS! So, I need to fatten up a bit....to get to at least BMI 30.

Al

(IIRC the info I've seen relating to grapefruit is that it slows the rate that the body excretes drugs, so it's the equivalent of taking an overdose.)

The most well-known effects of grapefruit occur because of inhibition of enzymes. But they're specific to particular drugs rather than a general effect on excretion.

And they can have the opposite effect. Some drugs (prodrugs) are metabolised into active products, and inhibition of enzymes involved in that synthesis can lead to decreased effect. This can happen with clopidogrel.

"Grapefruit-drug interactions":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grapefrui ... teractions

British National Formulary: "Grapefruit":
https://bnf.nice.org.uk/interactions/grapefruit/

Jonathan

It also prolongs the QT interval in the absence of any drugs. Consuming grapefruit can give rise to arrhythmias in patients who already have a prolonged QT due to medication or their genetics.
https://www.heartrhythmjournal.com/arti ... 6/fulltext

Quick note to say that fruit has Fructose, which as far as I know never gets into the blood stream but is processed into fat in the liver.
So not all sugars are equal.
A fatty liver is not good, so too much fruit is also not good.

LittleGreyCat wrote: ↑30 May 2024, 8:37pm Quick note to say that fruit has Fructose, which as far as I know never gets into the blood stream but is processed into fat in the liver.
So not all sugars are equal.
A fatty liver is not good, so too much fruit is also not good.

Dietary fructose is carried from the gut in the hepatic portal blood stream to the liver.

Dietary sucrose is broken down in the gut to fructose and glucose.

Jonathan

Jdsk wrote: ↑27 May 2024, 9:08am

MelW wrote: ↑27 May 2024, 6:13am ...
You can't exercise your way out of a bad diet eg by cycling. Get your diet/nutrition right then exercise.
The best diet is the Keto diet where you eat low carb lots of green cruciferous non starchy veg and salad with meat, eggs and oily fish. Cut out all sugar, starch and processed foods which pretty much involves all wheat, bread, pasta, potatoes, pies, pizza, biscuits, cakes, breakfast cereal, PORRIDGE. No alcohol either. Do intermittent fasting, eat OMAD. Do HIIT, Yoga, calisthenics and weights.The weight will fall off you and you will become lean and strong. Your sugar cravings will disappear. You will find that when you ride, you will be much fitter as you are lighter, that you can ride further and faster and you don't get so fatigued.

There's lots of discussion of "keto"diets in previous threads. There just isn't enough evidence about their effects.
search.php?keywords=keto

Jonathan

It's been a complete game changer for me. Down from 19 to around 10 stones. So much healthier and fitter. There is plenty of evidence. [Text removed by moderator] Tell the hundreds no thousands of people who have adopted it and turned their lives around. I had to do it as my weight had ballooned following NHS nutrition advice [text removed by moderator].

The traditional medical orthodoxy wants people to be on drugs like metformin for the rest of their lives as the drugs industry makes billions from keeping people ill and so do doctors. The food industry are in on it as well to keep people addicted to processed food full of sugar, carbs, additives, preservatives and supplements. The NHS for decades has promoted a low fat, low meat HIGH carb diet. There are millions of people now who are prediabetic if not diabetic, fat and unhealthy because of this staggeringly ignorant and negligent advice. They also have other dangerous health conditions that will shorten their lives or massively reduce quality of life. Many doctors themselves have zero understanding about nutrition. They are not trained in it at med school. They only treat symptoms not preventative medicine.

Anyway judging by many of the responses here from people still going on about calories shows just how uninformed people still are. A calorie is merely a unit of energy. It tells you nothing about the nutritional value of the food you are eating. So people think if I eat only sugar and carbs, but within government calorie guidelines then I'll be ok which is a recipe for disaster and hence the current health crisis.

I'm not giving up my Keto diet. I feel so good, like I am 19 again and yet I am many decades older. My skin is so much better. I can do exercise easily again like when I was younger. Aches and joint pains are gone. Brain fog gone. I have tweaked my version of Keto by increasing the amount of protein I eat to combat muscle loss as I age as everyone does, as muscle loss is a real thing as you age. It helps me with strength training and stamina, to keep toned.

[text removed by moderator] I and others will still keep on turning our lives around by doing Keto eating fresh healthy food, cooking from scratch using whole food ingredients, no junk processed carb and sugar laden processed meals, meaning we become healthy and strong again hopefully make it well into old age.

Sugar, carbs from what ever source is still sugar and carbs, your body still has to metabolise it eg fruit or starchy veg. Processed foods all need to be restricted and eaten sparingly not become a staple ingredient of your diet as many don't eat anything else and they eat far too much as I used to do! Intermittent fasting is good for you. There is plenty of beneficial health and nutritional evidence now if you are prepared to look and make the effort to find it. Why wouldn't you? You want to be healthy don't you?

Thanks

Would you like to cite the evidence? I'd be particularly interested in the quality of the studies and the periods of observation.

Jonathan

Jdsk wrote: ↑3 Jun 2024, 3:52pm Thanks

Would you like to cite the evidence? I'd be particularly interested in the quality of the studies and the periods of observation.

Jonathan

Look for it and you will find it. It's not hard. It's to your benefit.

MelW wrote: ↑3 Jun 2024, 4:09pm

Jdsk wrote: ↑3 Jun 2024, 3:52pm Thanks

Would you like to cite the evidence? I'd be particularly interested in the quality of the studies and the periods of observation.

Look for it and you will find it. It's not hard. It's to your benefit.

I've looked quite hard, and if I'd found anything relevant I'd have cited it.

You clearly have found evidence of better outcomes: please could you share it with us.

Thanks

Jonathan

MelW wrote: ↑3 Jun 2024, 3:49pm eating fresh healthy food, cooking from scratch using whole food ingredients, no junk processed carb and sugar laden processed meals, meaning we become healthy and strong again hopefully make it well into old age.

Not wanting to be picky, but this is just a normal healthy diet, it doesn't need to have a brand name.
Congratulations on the weight loss, and feeling well. These are wonderful things, but I'm not sure that heavily marketed exclusionary diets are are paraticularly helpful in general, even if they might help individuals managing their specific circumstances.
There's some research quoted here :
https://zoe.com/post/how-keto-works
But be aware, that although the research is peer reviewed, the company also sells tailored dietry advice, so is not without its own vested interests.