Pedal assist on recumbent trikes

[UpWrong]

Doesn't the motor cable exit through the axle on all hub motors? How else can power get to the motor?

Copenhagen wheel?

Maybe exiting on the RD side is better than exiting on the left, since the RD protects the end of the axle from impact. My Wisper has the motor cable on the right but it does make it more difficult to unplug the cable with the proximity of the freewheel cogs.

[hercule]

I’ve been riding my Kettwiesel without the third party motor I fitted to it. It’s much nicer without! Yes, I go slower and maybe not so far but it feels much nicer and smoother to ride. And I get more exercise!

[[XAP]Bob]

Doesn't the motor cable exit through the axle on all hub motors? How else can power get to the motor?

Doesn't have to exit through the end of the axle though, can exit through a cutout to the side, which would be much more protected.

[UpWrong]

I’ve been riding my Kettwiesel without the third party motor I fitted to it. It’s much nicer without! Yes, I go slower and maybe not so far but it feels much nicer and smoother to ride. And I get more exercise!

Presumably your motor uses a cadence sensor? If so, it may be that a torque sensor would provide more feel.

On my Wisper bike (cadence sensor) I get most feel when riding at the cut-off limit which is where the assistance tails off. At lower speeds it sometimes feels that I am just twiddling the pedals and the motor is doing all the work.

[hercule]

Yes, it was a cadence sensor version… unfortunately, the Kettwiesel has a bit of complexity round the bottom bracket which means fitting a torque sensing bottom bracket is challenging. So is a crank drive. Though the major issue was probably the front motor , the Kett’s front wheel is very lightly laden, and going up steep hills just means wheel spin. I’m sure the OEM ones with Shimano Steps are much nicer.

[UpWrong]

Yes I've been looking again at some ICE STEPS configurations. A well-spec'd Sprint X is coming in at £8746, whereas an X Tour comes in at £8354 mainly because of the difference in seats. The Air Pro looks great but the Ergo-flow is probably more practical. I've had the latter before and still have the throwover side-pods to fit. The Tour is shorter in length too and a 26" wheel is more robust. So my heart says X but my head says X Tour. I'm conflicted

[squeaker]

So my heart says X but my head says X Tour.

My head says 'How much?!?'

[UpWrong]

So my heart says X but my head says X Tour.

My head says 'How much?!?'

Less than half the price of a Microlino, and no compulsory insurance . But yes, pretty stratospheric although less than HPV and AZUB offerings.

[UpWrong]

Yes I've been looking again at some ICE STEPS configurations. A well-spec'd Sprint X is coming in at £8746, whereas an X Tour comes in at £8354 mainly because of the difference in seats. The Air Pro looks great but the Ergo-flow is probably more practical. I've had the latter before and still have the throwover side-pods to fit. The Tour is shorter in length too and a 26" wheel is more robust. So my heart says X but my head says X Tour. I'm conflicted

EDIT: The Tour pricing included a lighting sytem (not listed as an option with the X). Removing that brings the Tour down to £8065.

[hercule]

And to think I bought my humble little QNT new for £1500! Whilst that was 2006, that’s quite a rate of inflation.

[UpWrong]

And to think I bought my humble little QNT new for £1500! Whilst that was 2006, that’s quite a rate of inflation.

Yes, I bought an ICE T with the rear suspension for £1500 in 2007 I think. But I am talking about full suspension with pedal assistance now. Hmmm, a new Gazelle eBike with a mid-drive would be about a third of the cost. They even have a feet forward eBike, the EasyFlow, https://www.gazellebikes.com/en-gb/ebikes/easyflow

[pjclinch]

And to think I bought my humble little QNT new for £1500! Whilst that was 2006, that’s quite a rate of inflation.

Yes, I bought an ICE T with the rear suspension for £1500 in 2007 I think. But I am talking about full suspension with pedal assistance now. Hmmm, a new Gazelle eBike with a mid-drive would be about a third of the cost. They even have a feet forward eBike, the EasyFlow, https://www.gazellebikes.com/en-gb/ebikes/easyflow

Giant had a pretty decent stab at a semi-'bent a few years ago, the Revive. Never caught on, which is a shame.
Adding e-assist should help it as a concept because there's less call to stand up for extra mash-power, for which a semi-'bent is not ideal!

Pete.

[UpWrong]

I'm contemplating getting a 'bent trike again, but with pedal assist this time. I'd definitely be wanting suspension and am tempted to experience full suspension having not had it before. So I costed up an ICE Sprint X and it comes to £8900. Without the pedal assist it's £5500. That's a big difference. Having had two eBikes with rear hub motors, I think I would be happy with fitting a conversion kit and this could be done for something like £1000, mounting the battery with a Terracyle holder. ICE trike wheels are undished of course but a dished wheel will still work. Or I could consider an HPV Scorpion or AZUB Ti-Fly, assuming QR drop-outs rather than thru axles can be fitted to the latter. A concern is the dropout width of hub motors. I have the 48v Shengyi DWG22C in mind which measures 138mm across the locknuts, and the offering from Yose Power is the same. Should be OK but all these trikes have aluminium swing arms, steel would be better for a hub motor.

Agree with you wrt to OLN of some of the rear hub kits, but another worry might be the distance between the hubs spoke flanges? For example, on non-power hubs this is of the order of 55mm, but on the Geeko (scroll down( (which I fancy due to its simplicity) it's 42mm, which might result in a less stiff (laterally) wheel: not an issue on a bike, but on at trike? (The XS08FC - attached - is a bit better at 45mm.)

pswpower ship the mxus XF08/XF08C from Germany, https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/363994580493
The freewheel version is shown as having an OLD of 135mm, and the freehub version having 144.8mm but that conflicts with 142mm posted elsewhere. The interflange distances are shown as 41.5mm and 45mm respectively. I'm running a 7 speed 13-28 Suntour freewheel on the Wisper and it's quite nice, but overall would rather have a freehub.

[UpWrong]

I still haven't made a move. A couple of thoughts. One is that the asymmetric rear swing arm of an ICE would make for a stronger wheel, and that might be important with the small interflange distances of hub motors. Secondly, I heard that Shimano's new generation motors use different batteries with different holders than the outgoing range. Proprietary incompatibilities reign supreme! This news pushes me more into considering DIY hub electrification rather than Shimano Steps.

[Psamathe]

... The Air Pro looks great but the Ergo-flow is probably more practical. I've had the latter before and still have the throwover side-pods to fit. The Tour is shorter in length too and a 26" wheel is more robust. So my heart says X but my head says X Tour. I'm conflicted :?

I find the AirPro seat excellent, though never been on a "slung" seat so I can't compare (but despite to cost of the AirPro if buying again I'd definitely still go for the AirPro).

Note that the Sprint X Tour with AirPro is a bit longer than the Sprint X Tour with standard "slung" seat. The AirPro makes the frame setting a bit longer (though you can adjust the frame to swap seat type, though that also means new chain and ideally new tubes).

Ian.