ICE Sprint-X Tour w/EP8 and Rohloff SpeedHub 14 - Gearing options

[Drummer]

Hello folks,

Some of you will know what I've got by now, but for those who don't, I have an ICE Sprint-X Tour with Shimano Steps EP8 motor and a Rohloff SpeedHub 14 gear hub.

Very basically, on the flat, I never use gears 1-6, I always commence riding from seventh or eighth. I'm finding that, as I'm riding amongst traffic a lot, I'm very timid about emerging from junctions, as the speed differential is so great. Don't get me wrong here, I know I'm pulling off in a relatively high gear, but honestly, my cadence in those lower gears makes them pretty much useless, besides for steep climbs; I think for the steepest climb locally to me, I used fourth gear. So the remaining lower gears are pretty much useless, with the higher gears seemingly not high enough for me to reach the speeds I wish to reach in traffic.

##CONTROVERTIAL OPINION ALERT##

Personally, I believe that UK regulations should be changed to accommodate for those low-slung cycles, such as recumbents, to allow their assists to continue providing power until they reach 30mph, so that they can emerge more safely into traffic travelling at 30-40mph. Perhaps this could be done in such a way as to gently ease off of the assist while travelling at traffic speed, reducing it to the current 15.5mph. This would give the rider a good opportunity to emerge into traffic and ample time to be seen by other road users.

Anyway, with that said, what would my options be regarding gearing? Might I be able to opt for a larger front sprocket? I'm not all that familiar with cycle mechanics, but I'm guessing this will require a new chain?

Please keep in mind before replying, that with my trike's current configuration, I have no front sprocket gears.

Thanks a lot for your time in reading, folks.

[Jdsk]

How many teeth at the front and how many at the back? And please add some close up photos of the front. That will show us how easy it will be to change something.

Don’t worry about the chain length: lots of helpful people here. But how is it tensioned?

Jonathan

[Psamathe]

...
Personally, I believe that UK regulations should be changed to accommodate for those low-slung cycles, such as recumbents, to allow their assists to continue providing power until they reach 30mph, so that they can emerge more safely into traffic travelling at 30-40mph. ...

There is no reason you have to travel at the same speed as the traffic. Most pedal cycles rarely get to 30mph and it isn't an issue. I don' think I've ever cycled at 30 moh, not even downhill with a following wind. I'd even wonder about the safety, handling, braking at that speed amongst cars, vans and lorries.

I wonder if you are confusing speed and acceleration? I've never had any issues emerging onto roads. Sometimes you have to wait a bit for a suitable gap but not a problem.

Maybe think about how you are cycling as most cyclists don't try to match the speed of cars, vans and lorries.

Ian

[Psamathe]

Don't forget that Rohloffs have torque limits and exceeding those will void any warranty (and I've met somebody who has trashed a Rohloff through over torquing).

I'm aware of the limits in practice for non-assisted (having recently upgraded to a Rohloff) but it's probably a lot more complex with an assist. You could try checking with ICE.

Ian

[Drummer]

How many teeth at the front and how many at the back? And please add some close up photos of the front. That will show us how easy it will be to change something.

Don’t worry about the chain length: lots of helpful people here. But how is it tensioned?

Jonathan

I've no idea, I don't know, and I most assuredly will, lol! It's a bit dark in there now, but I'll give it a bash. Thank you. I believe it has a tensioner at the back.

...
Personally, I believe that UK regulations should be changed to accommodate for those low-slung cycles, such as recumbents, to allow their assists to continue providing power until they reach 30mph, so that they can emerge more safely into traffic travelling at 30-40mph. ...

There is no reason you have to travel at the same speed as the traffic. Most pedal cycles rarely get to 30mph and it isn't an issue. I don' think I've ever cycled at 30 moh, not even downhill with a following wind. I'd even wonder about the safety, handling, braking at that speed amongst cars, vans and lorries.

I wonder if you are confusing speed and acceleration? I've never had any issues emerging onto roads. Sometimes you have to wait a bit for a suitable gap but not a problem.

Maybe think about how you are cycling as most cyclists don't try to match the speed of cars, vans and lorries.

Ian

My main concern is that I'm basically lying in the road. Perhaps you're thinking of upright bicyclists, who are far, far more visible (I'm thinking especially about HGVs). Past where I live, which only has one road in and out, a very busy A road, with HGVs 24/7, the heavies travel at 30, even between parked cars! There's a zebra crossing, well lit, well-sighted, where we can stand and watch eight or ten vehicles sail straight past without giving way, it's seriously bad down here! If I pull out of a junction, with good time to spare, usually, then a heavy comes sailing round the corner, the driver only has to glance at his phone, radio, navigation or whatever for a second or two, then I'm out of their line of sight, below their dash... then I'm splattered to pieces!

Being so low down, surrounded by HGVs, I want all the help I can get! I know drivers should pay more attention... but there's another 'should' for you, the world's full of those, sadly.

The longer I'm out in primary and visible to all, the more visible I am for the furthest distance, the better. I'm always 'clenching' when I pull onto that road, and for the entire time I ride along it. There's no other route. I use the side roads as much as I can, but it's basically a glorified hamlet, really, with the main A road running through the middle, so to get anywhere, I need to use it, and I don't feel even remotely safe on it, hence my reasoning behind having a full-blown lighting 'rig' on the trike, so as to be as visible as absolutely possible.

I mean, just to reinforce this, one time, a couple of years ago, I was on that crossing, in broad daylight, wearing a white shirt and white linen trousers, in the height of summer. The car to my right had stopped, the HGV to my left was a fair few yards away and looked to be stopping. I got across in front of the car and lurched back as the HGV sailed through the crossing!!! If I hadn't looked to my left again, I'd likely have been killed!!!

This road is bad, the drivers are bad, everything's bad, I fear for my life, basically lying in the road and I need all the help I can get.

[Psamathe]

How many teeth at the front and how many at the back? And please add some close up photos of the front. That will show us how easy it will be to change something.

Don’t worry about the chain length: lots of helpful people here. But how is it tensioned?

Jonathan

I've no idea, I don't know, and I most assuredly will, lol! It's a bit dark in there now, but I'll give it a bash. Thank you. I believe it has a tensioner at the back.

...
Personally, I believe that UK regulations should be changed to accommodate for those low-slung cycles, such as recumbents, to allow their assists to continue providing power until they reach 30mph, so that they can emerge more safely into traffic travelling at 30-40mph. ...

There is no reason you have to travel at the same speed as the traffic. Most pedal cycles rarely get to 30mph and it isn't an issue. I don' think I've ever cycled at 30 moh, not even downhill with a following wind. I'd even wonder about the safety, handling, braking at that speed amongst cars, vans and lorries.

I wonder if you are confusing speed and acceleration? I've never had any issues emerging onto roads. Sometimes you have to wait a bit for a suitable gap but not a problem.

Maybe think about how you are cycling as most cyclists don't try to match the speed of cars, vans and lorries.

Ian

My main concern is that I'm basically lying in the road. Perhaps you're thinking of upright bicyclists, who are far, far more visible (I'm thinking especially about HGVs). Past where I live, which only has one road in and out, a very busy A road, with HGVs 24/7, the heavies travel at 30, even between parked cars! There's a zebra crossing, well lit, well-sighted, where we can stand and watch eight or ten vehicles sail straight past without giving way, it's seriously bad down here! If I pull out of a junction, with good time to spare, usually, then a heavy comes sailing round the corner, the driver only has to glance at his phone, radio, navigation or whatever for a second or two, then I'm out of their line of sight, below their dash... then I'm splattered to pieces!

Being so low down, surrounded by HGVs, I want all the help I can get! I know drivers should pay more attention... but there's another 'should' for you, the world's full of those, sadly.

The longer I'm out in primary and visible to all, the more visible I am for the furthest distance, the better. I'm always 'clenching' when I pull onto that road, and for the entire time I ride along it. There's no other route. I use the side roads as much as I can, but it's basically a glorified hamlet, really, with the main A road running through the middle, so to get anywhere, I need to use it, and I don't feel even remotely safe on it, hence my reasoning behind having a full-blown lighting 'rig' on the trike, so as to be as visible as absolutely possible.

I mean, just to reinforce this, one time, a couple of years ago, I was on that crossing, in broad daylight, wearing a white shirt and white linen trousers, in the height of summer. The car to my right had stopped, the HGV to my left was a fair few yards away and looked to be stopping. I got across in front of the car and lurched back as the HGV sailed through the crossing!!! If I hadn't looked to my left again, I'd likely have been killed!!!

This road is bad, the drivers are bad, everything's bad, I fear for my life, basically lying in the road and I need all the help I can get.

Most of the time I ride an ICE Sprint X Tour so am very familiar with the ride position. Plus I've cycled on a very wide range of roads all over UK & Europe. And I wouldn't ride the ICE at 30 mph amongst cars, vans and lorries. And even riding at 30 in a 30 limit enough cars, vans and lorries will want to pass because that's what they do to cycles (overtake them) except they are used to them doing 15 so might be pulling in a bit too soon if you are doing 30 as it takes them a lot linger to pass.

Ian

[UpWrong]

Whilst it's easy enough to up the gearing, above 15.5 mph there's no assist so you are trying to cycle a 50lb 3-wheeler against a wall of air. On my eBike I find 17 or 18 mph is about the limit on the flat.

[[XAP]Bob]

Not that controversial

The 250w limit should be enough limit, but that’s not what the rules say.

Don’t know what the EPS sprocket attachment is, but can probably be upsized, or reduce the size of the sprocket on the hub.


But you are *far* more seen than an upwrong cyclist… those HGVs can still see the white lines and the cats eyes… they can see a recumbent.

[Drummer]

Sorry folks... I'm on the wine again tonight... being locked in for so long tends to do that to me... I haven't taken any pictures, it's too dark in there, even with the artificial lighting, the pictures look rubbish.

I won't quote, because it makes for a blocky mess;
Ian... of course you ride a Sprint-X Tour, I should have remembered that... how the fork didn't I remember that?! Let's go and blame it on the wine... or the autism... lol!

I mean, this is Jam Shed 'Rhubarb & Strawberry Smash' and it's like drinking squash, soo... I'm sorry I've had two lol!

Well, you've clearly had a ton more riding experience than me... would you mind telling me how you get over the gut-wrenching knots and clenches that come with merging with general A road traffic?!

I've watched my helmet-cam videos back after each ride, and almost daily after, since I began riding my trike... and I don't know how I seem so calm, breathing wise, in the clips. I know I'm pedalling for my life whenever I have something behind me, and you could see that if you saw the clips; I'm looking in the mirrors more than I'm looking ahead, normally because ahead is just road, as everyone else has pulled away, lol!

Maybe I just need an enormous rear light? I dunno. I am literally pedalling for my life out there, whenever I get onto that road.

Also, no one-upmanship or however that phrase is typed, but I usually pedal my guts out of my pants to match traffic speed when emerging onto this road (I'm not disclosing the road or 'Glorified Hamlet' here, as I have a hunk of kit stuck in my back room, on which I've spent *checks receipts and order histories*, over twelve thousand pounds. It's registered and has an alarm, and if anyone were to touch it without my say-so, I would be very alarmed indeed, but yeah... I'm not keen on localising myself. Suffice it to say, it's a very busy A road which, besides the M1, serves as a kind of backbnone to Britain. It gets very dicey!

[[XAP]Bob]

Get a decent rear light, it will make you feel better, irrespective of any other effect - and I have to ask where in the lane you ride?

What is particularly dodgy about the situation?
Have you driven behind someone else on a recumbent?



Google suggests that the EPS motor takes conventional cranks, so it should be trivial to fit a larger chainring.

[Drummer]

Get a decent rear light, it will make you feel better, irrespective of any other effect - and I have to ask where in the lane you ride?

What is particularly dodgy about the situation?
Have you driven behind someone else on a recumbent?



Google suggests that the EPS motor takes conventional cranks, so it should be trivial to fit a larger chainring.

Thank you for the reply. I have four Knog Blinder square rear lights, an Exposure TraceR rear light, which I keep on a mixed setting (triple pulse with a solid state light to help with visual positioning), and a helmet light, which I have on a cascade setting, plus two Knog Blinder square front lights mounted at ninety degrees sideways, left and right, with amber self-adhesive film over them, to serve as side markers, and four Knog Blinder square front lights on the fenders, two at roughly forty five degrees, and two straight ahead, and two Exposure Trace front lights, one of which I keep on the hybrid triple pulse/fixed setting, so that others can both be attracted to me (pulse), and track my movements in adverse conditions (fixed), plus a built-in head light in my helmet, which I keep on a fixed mode, to avoid confusion if I happen to be swinging my head around like a flag, for some reason.

My road positioning depends entirely upon the situation; if it's a straight section, good long-range visibility, no obstructions, such as crossings, junctions, driveways and the like, which could produce a hazard, and another road user is behind me and could pass me safely, I'm in a secondary position, a foot or two from the road's edge, monitoring the situation at all angles from my point of view.

If the above isn't true, for whatever reason, whether it be a blind crest, junctions, bends, crossings, parked vehicles, or whatever... if I don't feel totally safe with someone passing me from behind, I'm in primary, around a foot away from the centre of the road, and won't move unless and until the situation changes.

I thought I had clarified the dangers around here, given my in-depth description of my experiences. I do tend to gabble, so perhaps you missed them. Personally, I think it's plain enough, especially given my zebra crossing incident, and the knowing that such incidents happen multiple times per week. There have been countless council and highways meetings and reports on this stretch of road... nothing has actually been done though.

I have ridden with one other 'bent rider, twice; once when I tested a trike with him and once on my test ride of my trike on the day I bought it from him... he was my ICE Trikes dealer.

Thank you for looking for that for me; I'm still a bit new to this, so I don't really know what terms to use on Google. I'm sure I'll learn eventually, lol!

[Drummer]

[[XAP]Bob]

There is no way in hell anyone can fail to see you, unless they are completely blind - you're lit up like a Christmas tree in an incinerator!

You also get the benefit of "what the hell is that", as opposed to "just a cyclist, zero width vehicle".

"My road positioning depends entirely upon the situation;..."
Sounds good to me.


"I thought I had clarified the dangers around here"
I've not been following the forum for a while - got too toxic, so I just stayed away.


I know you don't want to publicly state where you are - but if you're OK with it drop me a PM, and I'll see if a) I'm ever local enough, or b) I know who might be local enough, to go out with you and see whether there is something "obvious" that could be changed.
Or indeed drop me a helmet cam video.

[mark aldridge]

Good morning.
Just thought I would put the cat amongst the pigeons.
Cycling is inherently dangerous and cyclists are low on the road food chain.
99.9% of drivers are fine.
99.9% of cyclists are fine.
Cross your fingers and hope you don't encounter the odd idiot.
Expect close calls and horns, some people are ####### (insert own words).
Fit all the flags, lights and Hi-Vis you can and just go for it.
If you can't accept the risk take up crown green bowls (having offended bowlists I must point out other activities can be substituted).
My road bugbear are horses, for some reason they do not like orange velomobiles.
From what I can see, you are lit up like the Blackpool illuminations and there is no excuse not to be seen.
Maybe your perception may be a little sensitive, mine isn't.
I echo the comments on E-Drive, as I average over 17mph I would be lugging around a lot of weight and mechanical complication just to make hills easier.
E-Drive will come as I get older and more decrepit but for now I am fighting a good rear guard action.
Good luck.
Mark

[Psamathe]

(Sorry, a long response)
Note: I am no safety expert, not a cycle trainer so below are just my experiences and thoughts.

As John ([XAP]Bob) says above, they see you and don't need more floodlighting than Wembley Stadium to see you. When driving a car waiting at the lines to pull left at a t-Junction and you look right you see the large tree and line of lamp posts beside the road, you just don't register them. When I learnt to drive I was taught when seeing a (motor)bike or similar to say "bike" out loud or mentally and it ensures you register that there is a bike there. Ever ludicrous amounts of lighting doesn't help (risks just annoying drivers).

On a recumbent you are ahead of the game compared to upright 2-wheel cyclists as you are different and get noticed. Before getting my bent I rode only upright 2-wheels and close passes were not a massive problem but on the recumbent I get virtually none. Cars behind seem very reserved about passing - even where they'd happily overtake another car with plenty of room, passing me on a recumbent seems to cause them some sort of mental block.

You are pretty much the same size as a large oil drum. If a driver can't see an oil drum in the middle of the road in front on them then none of us are save in our sitting rooms watching TV (in case they come through the wall). Add a hi-viz flag and a (one) light and ...

Cars, vans & lorries really don't want to hit you. When you are on 2-wheels (upright) they know how wide you are, are used to passing bicycles so will occasionally push it closer jut with a recumbent they don't know, you are probably the first they've ever seen, hence they notice wonder what it is ...

Many years ago when I did a lot of scuba diving, 1st barrier reef I dived on (not australia) I asked the dive shop if I should borrow a wet suit as lots of things to sting, bite, etc. They answer was "You can and if you do you will be isolating yourself, reenforcing the idea that it's all hostile. But don't wear one (exposed skin) and you'll embrace the environment anf focus on your surroundings and not feel it dangerous" (and I did discover fire coral and how painful it is, did get bitten, etc. none of which were major and it was a great place).

I'm shocked because if I felt I was "taking my life in my hands every time I went out I wouldn't bother - no fun. Maybe consider calming down, get rid of most of those lights and enjoy the ride. You might get an occasional close pass but then even when I drive my car I have an occasion mad overtake with swerve in in front of me, etc. (probably more other driver madness when I'm driving my car than on the bent).

nb trying to keep pace with traffic is a non-starter. Drive a car along a motorway at 69 mph and the car behind will be overtaking you so they can do 70 (or drive at 75 and they'll be overtaking to do 76, etc.). On a cycle, leave a safe distance to the car in front and the car behind will often need to overtake into that space because "cyclists hold up traffic", passing cycles is what cars do. But cycle along behind a car at 30 mph and car stops suddenly, who has the better brakes (car designed to go a lot faster or cycle designed to go slower), who has better visibility, etc.. Let them pass, they don't want to hit you.

Ian