Cycling UK Forum

I love the essential simplicity of a bicycle, the fact that anyone who wants to do their own repairs can without too much difficulty encompass most aspects of repair, maintenance and replacement of parts. With user TLC a traditional bike can be kept going for years for reasonable cost

And then we had the eBike. These are brilliant inventions but I always worried that the complexity had more in common with a modern car and it's electronic engine management system than a traditional bicycle: not something the user can easily service and maintain. I also worried that the complexity of the electronics and motor would be unreliable, especially in our damp climate.

This article suggests there is indeed such an issue https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyl ... ing-motors

I'm getting to the stage when an eBike is starting to seem attractive, but I'm not rushing. Perhaps a bolt on kit so I can remove it when it fails? What is the answer?

Just keep the jet wash away from the motor and other electronics. In fact just keep the jet wash away from all bikes, including acoustic.
All I use is a bowl of soapy water and a few old rags and I don't own an electric bike. If I'm feeling as though time is on my side I might finish off with a wax polish.
Of course you are right to be concerned. A replacement mid drive motor from someone like Bosch will set you back many hundreds of ££££'s. Water getting into the electronics is a well known failure point but it's obviously not the only one.

It's not just reliability, I don't think spares will be available over the long term, either. My bike's still rideable and repairable after 23 years, I doubt an eBike will be. When you see an average person's attitude to riding a bike in the rain, it surprises me not at all that they aren't designed for it.

Cling film is the answer, apparently:

Pinhead wrote: ↑7 Jun 2024, 1:30pm

Audax67 wrote: ↑7 Jun 2024, 9:18am Chum doing a 500k ride to Paris at 100k/day recently had to pack when he got caught in heavy rain and it invaded the handlebar console.

His bike is a Giant, but I'm told that other brands too are fair-weather only. Or put a polybag over it.

It isn't rocket science to place cling film over any display

I don't think it'll be terminal though, what other products are designed to last longer than they take to go out of fashion these days? If manufacturers find that their products are too reliable they just invent a new fashion.

The Path Racer wrote: ↑15 Jun 2024, 12:10pm Just keep the jet wash away from the motor and other electronics. In fact just keep the jet wash away from all bikes, including acoustic.
All I use is a bowl of soapy water and a few old rags and I don't own an electric bike. If I'm feeling as though time is on my side I might finish off with a wax polish.
Of course you are right to be concerned. A replacement mid drive motor from someone like Bosch will set you back many hundreds of ££££'s. Water getting into the electronics is a well known failure point but it's obviously not the only one.

In winter

Battery replacement costs can be prohibitive, too. so people buy Chinese knock-offs which burn their house down.

geomannie wrote: ↑15 Jun 2024, 7:58am This article suggests there is indeed such an issue https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyl ... ing-motors

The article suggests the issues are mainly those on MTB trails in all weathers, I don't know how much that relates to my E-bike with guards and flaps used mostly on Tarmac, maybe 50% at most. The article also tells us that motors can be fully rebuilt, with the most expensive costing £370.
For the unluckiest of users, after the initial expense of buying the bike, the running costs might be as much as £200 a year over a non elec bike. For most of us, I doubt it's half that, decide for yourself if you think that represents good value.
I'd also suggest buying from a local shop with a decent reputation if that's at all possible. Mine came from a local chain who are a Bosch service center. The rebuild kit for my motor is £180 + £50 fitting and I'm told that includes all the parts likely to wear. I could have saved a few quid buying online, I have no qualms about doing so for non elec stuff, I just liked the idea that I could ride to the service center, particularly if I'd had any warranty issues.

axel_knutt wrote: ↑15 Jun 2024, 12:48pm It's not just reliability, I don't think spares will be available over the long term, either.

Bosch have a commitment (Though it falls short of a guarantee) to keep parts available for ten years after the date production ceased. My motor is two years old and still in production. That isn't forever, though it's longer than most people keep any bike. It also a long time for technology, what will E-bike be like in 10 years? Maybe they'd have changed to the extent I'd want something else.

geomannie wrote: ↑15 Jun 2024, 7:58am I'm getting to the stage when an eBike is starting to seem attractive, but I'm not rushing. Perhaps a bolt on kit so I can remove it when it fails? What is the answer?

I think we're at a stage where the idea of an e-bike is more attractive to those coming back to cycling... and I suspect many will be used in good weather for a few rides before the owners forget to keep the batteries charged and problems will creep in.... and then they'll go and buy a car...

...they'll be a smaller percentage of those who'll keep on top of maintenance... but of those only a smaller amount will purchase new ones to replace those which have worn out... at this point, I suspect I'm going to get a barrage of replies... but I suspect that an e-bike doesn't supply for brain with the same amount of endorphins as a regular bike, and as such the passion to ride it won't naturally be enforced through biological feedback...

..the last time I cycled to my re-cycling centre I noted that there was already an -scooter in the scrap metal skip...

..there, I've said it....

The Path Racer wrote: ↑15 Jun 2024, 12:10pm..... In fact just keep the jet wash away from all bikes, including acoustic.....

sorry, what is an 'acoustic bicycle'? IME jetwashers (like most tools) are only as bad as the people that use them, ie. jetwashing bikes is only ever.bad if done badly.

Brucey wrote: ↑15 Jun 2024, 3:30pm

The Path Racer wrote: ↑15 Jun 2024, 12:10pm..... In fact just keep the jet wash away from all bikes, including acoustic.....

sorry, what is an 'acoustic bicycle'?
...

It's a delightful back-formation play on words for a bike that isn't electric, by analogy with a guitar that isn't electric.

Jonathan

Strictly speaking, they are semi-acoustic, like a Gibson ES-335 or a Gretsch Country Gentleman. One without pedals would be truly electric

geomannie wrote: ↑15 Jun 2024, 7:58am
I'm getting to the stage when an eBike is starting to seem attractive, but I'm not rushing. Perhaps a bolt on kit so I can remove it when it fails? What is the answer?

One more I'll recommend,from an experience of three of them used in our household, a Fazua-equipped e-bike.Reasons why:

1) The bikes that use this system tend to be very close to unmotored standard bicycles, with only a fatter downtube and BB where the Fazua stuff goes. They use standard bike designs and parts.

2) Related to the above, most Fazua-equipped e-bikes are much lighter than the Bosch tanks and similar. Our three are 13.5 kg, 14.5kg and 16 kg with the motor/battery units in.

3) Also related: the motor battery unit can be removed. This means that: the battery is easily charged anywhere; the motor/battery unit can be either locked in the bike or easily taken with you into the cafe, for example; the downtube can have a blank housing (no motor/battery in it) mounted so your bike becomes an unmotored ordinary bike 3 kg lighter.

4) Although the motor is lightweight and relatively small, as is the battery (250 watt-hr) the torque is just under 60 Nm and the motor remains efficient at low uphill speeds, unlike hub motors. The mid drive design also lowers the bike's centre of gravity, which makes it very stable but also very good at the fast & curvy downhills.

5) The software controlling the motor can be tweaked by the rider to provide all sorts of power profiles to suit many cycling and rider conditions and abilities. There are three available power levels (& no-power) with a button press that can be set at anything from 50 watts to 250 watts. The motor power input can be scaled to your own pedal power input in all sorts of ways. E.g. I've set one motor assistance level to max 75 watts if I input 150 watts at the pedals myself. Less power from me scales the 75 watts down pro rata.

6) If the motor or battery fails and you can't afford to replace them (battery about £500 and motor + battery unit about £1100) you still have an ordinary bike of light weight and standard configuration for its type (racer, tourer, gravel or whatever) that's usable without the motor/battery. Just put the empty container into the downtube instead. The BB gearbox is rated for 150,000km but it too can be swapped out easily for a new one if necessary (about £500).

7) Assuming you don't ride everywhere at 250 watts whilst adding your own pedal power of 200 watts, the standard bike components (chain, cogs, tyres etc.) don't wear any faster than they do on an unmotored bike ridden in a similar way.

Oh, I thought di2 would be the semi acoustic.

Jdsk wrote: ↑15 Jun 2024, 3:33pm

Brucey wrote: ↑15 Jun 2024, 3:30pm

The Path Racer wrote: ↑15 Jun 2024, 12:10pm..... In fact just keep the jet wash away from all bikes, including acoustic.....

sorry, what is an 'acoustic bicycle'?
...

It's a delightful back-formation play on words for a bike that isn't electric, by analogy with a guitar that isn't electric.

Jonathan

Yes but it also implies that an unmotored bike is a noisy thing; and that the motored ones are loud twangers that make those annoying 3-chord riff noises. It also implies that we cyclists are shaggy-haired poseurs with tight leggings and loud tops! (Ooooh - that bit may be troo). However, all my bicycles, motored or otherwise, are whisper-quiet - apart from my own grunting and wheezing, of course.

The expression is too twee for mee by 'arf and far from "delightful" therefore.

Ebikes are like modern cars. The bit in common with older analogue bikes are as robust if not more so. The ebike , like modern cars has certain elements that can be fragile, thus taking less abuse , and are beyond user servicing. If you can live with a modern car you can live with a modern ebike.
I hate the idea but I am awkward.