Fitting a kickstand to a bike withOut mounting plates

[531colin]

I suspect the best solution is to buy or make another click stand. There's no getting away from the problem of too weak walled tubing to take a mounted stand.
You've nicely illustrated why I disagreed with others here that a touring type bike should be made to take a stand mount. It really only requires strength in the chainstays and bottom bracket area. The tiny weight gain is negligible.

What tubing would you recommend?

Whatever a knowledgeable frame designer would recommend for taking a kick stand mount
Ideally it would have a central drilled bracket suitably welded (?or brazed) in place behind the BB and under the chainstays that will take the M10 bolt for mounting the stand.
I think you know the answer to your own question.

No, I don't know the answer. Somewhere in a recent "stand" thread, somebody posted a sketch of something a local framebuilder made. I think it was a plate which brazed to the chainstays and bracket shell, and there was a tube to take an M10 bolt; maybe there was another plate above the chainstays. An expensive addition to a frame, particularly if you don't want a stand.
If you have a plain flat sheet fixed below the chainstays, it needs to be pretty thick to withstand the leverage of a bike and panniers on a stand....maybe 3mm thick? Now I'm no welder, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but i believe its good practice to have bits of steel of approximately the same thickness welded together, otherwise you can burn through the thin bit before you get decent weld penetration of the thick bit. Chainstays that I have come across are under 1mm wall thickness.

Here it is! viewtopic.php?t=144856 Plates above and below the chainstays, and I think its brazed not welded to the frame.

[Cyclothesist]

I think the short answer to the OPs question is that you can't safely mount a kickstand to the tubes of a bike not designed for one. You can use a click-stand or similar that props the bike up.
Should bikes marketed as suitable for touring have a kick stand mount is another question. And a bit of a Marmite topic amongst the forum community.

[Brucey]

my bracket would obviously look a bit different depending on which stand and which hub are involved; however, there is no reason why the bracket cannot incorporate the LH hub locknut too, making the use of such a bracket with disc brake hubs pretty straightforward, since there is always a gap between the dropout and the disc mounting hardware. In most cases the net strength and stiffness of the bracket could (eg. with QRs or TAs) be greatly improved by including a thin (~0.5mm to 0.8mm) element on the outside of the dropout, to be trapped by the QR or TA. This could be a perfect fit if (say) the dropout was 5mm thickness, but (being thin) it would bend to fit any dropout from 3.0mm to 8.0mm in thickness.The actual stand interface could be made to suit stands which are meant to be chainstay mounted, or modified ones which are meant to be bottom bracket mounted. In any event the rear wheel needs to be secure. Hopefully, stand loosening (eg via vibration) won't be a problem; if it is then mounting the stand using a combination of spring washers and rubber shims may be the answer.

In use, the stand would create a small net torque on the axle; hopefully this would be resisted by a properly tightened rear wheel, so that an additional brace onto one of the stays is not needed. This will have to be proven by practical demonstration, but in any event the stand bracket will need to be set correctly; to help with this, it is envisaged that the bracket will be drilled horizontally or a length of tube is included in the bracket design, eg allowing something to be inserted and used to aid alignment.

I think this might be a good way to make trailer brackets, too. I do realise that not everyone can weld, but nearly everyone knows of someone who can. The whole thick to thin thing is perhaps overstated; whilst it is certainly true that the most straightforward and reliable welding procedures employ a joint design with equal thicknesses and unequal thicknesses should be avoided unless there is a very good reason, this is not to say that welding thick to thin is impossible. It certainly isn't.

[531colin]

............ whilst it is certainly true that the most straightforward and reliable welding procedures employ a joint design with equal thicknesses and unequal thicknesses should be avoided unless there is a very good reason, this is not to say that welding thick to thin is impossible. It certainly isn't.

When the fabrication is being done by operatives in a factory the other side of the world, my approach was to have them do stuff they are used to doing.....for example, complicated bends in chainstays to clear big tyre, chainring and crank end, my approach was to have them use the tubing they are used to working with.

[slowster]

I think almost all Rivendell frames have a kickstand plate similar to that below brazed to the chainstays, instead of a chainstay bridge. That includes the lightweight touring frames. I think the frames are made by Maxway in Taiwan.

[Brucey]

I think almost all Rivendell frames have a kickstand plate similar to that below brazed to the chainstays, instead of a chainstay bridge. That includes the lightweight touring frames. I think the frames are made by Maxway in Taiwan.

I quite like stands on bikes because they can be very handy; however, rightly or wrongly I automatically associate the presence of that bracket with imported frames of low quality.