Dual purpose mountain / touring bicycle

[oaklec]

Spa cycles Wayfarer or Elan Mk 1 frames would probably tick a lot of the boxes, though not UK made. I couldn't see on the website what the tyre clearance with 650B is. Colin on here would probably know

[PaulB65]

is this another summitfreedom type thread?

Not knowingly ... I have not posted on this forum under any other alias.
I might be a bit ignorant and possibly stupid, but that's a good reason for joining a foum like this, in order to learn the ways of the more knowledgeable ...

Apologies, I didn't intend it to come across that way, more asking if this thread is one that can never be solved due to the initial requirements. That it will run and run with never ending suggestions being thrown into the pot

No offence taken
I don’t think that this post will never be solved as there are two, possibly three, avenues to a solution:
a) stick to my initial requirements and find a suitable frame / have one built to measure,
b) adapt my requirements to modern component standards and consider Cotic’s Cascade, Spa’s Rove or similar
c) Brucey may have a third way

I’m trying to identify suitable models for a), and I am working through compatible specs for the Cascade and Rove and trying to find time to go and try the bikes.

All the feedback has been most helpful, and is much appreciated !

[rareposter]

I don’t think that this post will never be solved as there are two, possibly three, avenues to a solution:
a) stick to my initial requirements and find a suitable frame / have one built to measure,
b) adapt my requirements to modern component standards and consider Cotic’s Cascade, Spa’s Rove or similar
c) Brucey may have a third way

To go with the Cotic and Spa is this from Genesis, another UK brand:
https://www.genesisbikes.co.uk/vagabond

Literally just released (or at least, it's a redesign from their previous Vagabond, they've also updated the rest of the bikes in their range), it's not dissimilar to the Cotic. Although it's shown with drop bars, I think it's a flexible enough design to take flat bars.

Genesis are consistently well renowned, the Croix de Fer and Tour de Fer touring / gravel bikes have been on the market (with several design iterations) for many years.

[slowster]

...a geometry that would allow me to go and play on "singletrack", but not be too nervous loaded with bags for a month (or six)
- 27,5" wheels with upto 2,4" / 65mm tyres and mudguards
- fittings for front and rear racks, mudguards...

What would meet the first part of that specification is going to be subjective. It's not just a matter of what the bike is capable of/suitable for, but also very dependent on the rider. If you are looking for a bike that will perform similarly to your Rockrider MTB on singletrack, then I suspect you will be disappointed by the handling and feel of bikes intended for off-road touring.

Conversely, I think there is a lot of potential to be disappointed in the performance of an MTB used for loaded touring, especially for tours lasting months with heavy panniers on racks. For example, the Bridge Club appears to have significantly crimped chainstays, which is something I would be very wary of for months of riding with heavy rear panniers.

Given your comments about your Raleigh Royal and about having and being satisfied with 135mm QR etc., I think you would do better to get a touring bike for the touring, and keep your Rockrider or get an even better dedicated MTB for playing on singletrack. One bike for both almost inevitably involves compromises. Why force yourself to put up with those compromises if you don't need to?

If the Raleigh Royal doesn't take wide enough tyres for your liking, you could buy a Spa steel (or titanium) rim brake tourer bike or frame, which will take 40mm tyres and accept your 135mm hubs and other parts, or similarly a Spa Wayfarer which will accept 47mm tyres. If you want to use even wider tyres for off road touring, then consider the likes of Oxford Bike Works and Thorn etc., as others have already suggested.

Lastly, if you are determined to have one bike for both, and want one that will excel at both, then I recommend you look at the Jones SWB (short wheelbase) with unicrown fork. It is the current version of the bike james-o suggested, so does not have the quick release of the older (red) version, which I think you would struggle to buy second hand in the configuration you need with a unicrown fork.

This video shows a SWB in touring configuration at 12:35

[Biospace]

Hi PaulB65, I'd struggle to meet what you're looking for, so here's what I found when looking for a broadly similar purpose a few years ago. I'd decided not to modify a touring bicycle for use on bridleways and other tracks where the children were starting to do most of their riding and had a ride of a few new bicycles but couldn't decide, so found a 1994 mid range Marin 'mountain bike' (a Bear Valley SE) to use as a stopgap and to see how new machines compared with it.

To my surprise, I preferred the Marin to most of what I had tried out, so modified it to suit (handlebars, a pair of solid forks, mudguards, racks, suitable tyres) and continued using it until something better turned up. I wasn't sure I'd like the 26" American wheel size at first, but with 2" tyres the rolling circumference was very similar to a 700x32, I've since dropped the width to 1.75. You've guessed no doubt that a new 'gravel' bicycle or similar was never purchased, the BVSE has become my most used bicycle.

On several occasions I've been tempted to fit 650b wheels, or even one just at the front, but since there's nothing wrong with how it goes I've never got round to doing this, but I did rebuild the original suspension forks and occasionally use them if a ride is particularly rough. It's proved incredibly durable, stable and always feels good, even when ridden back to back with the Randonneur. I wouldn't want to go on an extended road tour with it, that wouldn't make sense with bicycles in the house intended for just that purpose, but did spend three or four days camping in the Yorkshire Dales a couple of years ago when some offroad tracks were to be taken and it proved more than capable.

Here it was when initially sorted for use as a stopgap before I altered it for my use, still on its original Marin-branded tyres.

[Brucey]

..... I effectively already have better than your suggestion.......

that is very unlikely. IMHO it is very likely that you have a slightly heavy, needlessly stiff bike, not in any way comparable to what I have in mind. What do you have at present?

My current mountain bike is a needlessly still, but (for a mountain bike), not very heavy Decathlon Rockrider 900:
https://share.icloud.com/photos/015BdG2 ... I375_eNFPA

QED then?

[SprokenBroke]

This bloke tours on a mountain bike but doesn't usually use panniers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUeFKPt2FTI