Cycling UK Forum

Although the general ethos here, which I approve of, is to try and fix and re-use everything I would not try to customise that bike. If it suits you as it is and it was just a matter of lubricating the chain and putting air in the tyres I might ride it to the pub but it looks like it weighs a ton and I do not think it would give me any joy to ride.

Old steel bikes with rim brakes are out of fashion just now and can be picked up cheaply. They are also fun to ride and cheap to maintain. Here is an example of one on eBay (I have no connection to the seller but I have a similar sort of bike that I have recently ridden on a couple of short tours)
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/405161414719 ... 66Bh86pZA

Do yourself a favour and buy now while prices are low. Whatever you decide to do I hope you enjoy the journey.
Steve

Just read through this thread with interest.

One question; the more cogs you have on the back, the thinner the chain has to be to fit between the cogs. As the chain gets thinner, do the front chainrings also have to get thinner to match the thinner chain?

LittleGreyCat wrote: ↑13 Aug 2024, 8:50pm One question; the more cogs you have on the back, the thinner the chain has to be to fit between the cogs. As the chain gets thinner, do the front chainrings also have to get thinner to match the thinner chain?

Potentially although I doubt that 20-year old chainrings will play nicely with a new chain, cassette and rear mech anyway.

Any time, effort and/or money spent on that bike is a waste of time. To reiterate what 531colin rather eloquently said:

531colin wrote: ↑13 Aug 2024, 6:01pm Save yourself the heartache, take it to the dump. Get something that works from a bike recycling charity

slowster wrote: ↑13 Aug 2024, 4:30pm

biker38109 wrote: ↑13 Aug 2024, 3:03pm Here is a completed ebay listing with the same bike: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/355842306456

I suggest you visit a bike recycling charity. It's likely that for whatever you are willing to pay to improve the gearing on your bike, you could buy a better bike that was in better condition, and easier and nicer to ride on the flat and up hills.

Thanks. The fact that the specifications are obsolete now makes looking up tutorials online more difficult.

3 piece crank and freewheel removal then.

Just watching the videos now. Very informative, thanks. I feel I have a much better idea now of tools and process! Sadly I didn't find a corresponding video on this site covering chainring removal/replacement but sure there will be others equally good elsewhere.

rareposter wrote: ↑13 Aug 2024, 6:07pm

biker38109 wrote: ↑13 Aug 2024, 6:33am I know I will probably have to get a new chain, but I am wondering if a derailleur will also be required and anything else? If the required parts and corresponding price keep mounting I will have to think that getting another bike may just make more sense.

You will need a new chain, rear mech, and rear shifter. And a new rear wheel since, as others have mentioned, you're after a cassette whereas what's on there is a screw on freewheel.

You also won't get a 46T cassette on there without some serious modification and cost. About the best I think you'll be able to sort is a 34T.

My guess is that changing one part will also unearth a whole host of mismatching components elsewhere as this doesn't fit that or these are too worn to work with those...

Very bluntly (as others have indicated in a more polite manner) any money spent on a 20-year old bike of that nature is a waste of time. The money would be better put towards something secondhand off eBay.

You may think it a 'lost cause' however I see the unearthing as a learning experience.

I am not going to try to put the bigger ones (above 7) as that does sound to be not the best course of action and trying to force a square blok into a round hole however, given the ease of getting old parts for this bike, it makes sense to me to try and find the best parts from the older compatible ones rather than scrapping the whole thing for a new bike.

5 speed to 7 (and 34t) seems attainable no? Also a smaller chainring also seems within reach. Both of these, having looked up the prices, seem to be able to be had for under £20 each. So that does not seem unreasonable of a price to try this rather than spending £2-300 for a whole new bike. Sure add on another 20 (?) or so for the added specialist tools for taking the parts on/off. If it then becomes apparent that the whole drivetrain had to be replaced or suchlike then I would be starting to admit defeat but I think it is too early in the game to do so yet!

I just hate the idea of perceived obsolescence vs. actual obsolescence. People say the same thing to me about my 10+ year old computer or ereader, that they can't see how I could use such old tat and to just buy new stuff, when I find them perfectly fine for my purposes. Sure, older things are not as user friendly, doesn't make them worthless, not to me anyway.

More a reflection of throwaway society than an objected appraisal of something's utility.

If the frame was rotting to bits sure but it is perfectly fine in that respect. The other parts are in a similar spec to how they were when they were considered new/current all those years ago and it is just people views of them that have changed.

With all that said perhaps I should start my own bike charity!

gaz wrote: ↑13 Aug 2024, 6:35pm

biker38109 wrote: ↑13 Aug 2024, 3:48pm I would be very happy with a 5 speed with 34.

Even if you could find one, I doubt that it would make you very happy.

In my experience the steps on a 5 speed 14-34 freewheel and resulting change in your cadence (rate of turning the pedals) as you switch gears are most uncomfortable.

Well I mentioned above that I believe what I had, in hindsight, on the other bike gifted to me, since given away, would have been 34t, I guess 7 speed, on the biggest. I think it might even be the same as the ones I am looking at now as it too had a big step from the smaller ones up to the bigger cog.

I would never have known this to be an 'issue' other than people discussing it as one.

I think people must be more picky than me about those things as I have never noticed any problem with 'steps' in gearing. Either the gear changes or it doesn't that is my main criteria. I would never know there was an issue with 'stepping' unless someone said it.

I mean you have big jumps when changing on the 3 cogs on the chainring don't you? Not ever bothered me.

Brucey wrote: ↑13 Aug 2024, 6:53pm having looked at the photographs you have linked to, it would seem that they might have used the 135mm rear spacing to make the 5s wheel dishless (strong) which means more sprockets won't necessarily fit easily.

If this is the case one option is to buy a Sun Race 5s freewheel (cheap) and rebuild it using one large IRD sprocket. Shimano sprockets will also fit, but will need to be filed first. If you make the spacers thinner, you can fit more sprockets onto that body, and if you start to make the largest sprocket dished (which you can sometimes do with a hammer), more again. If you make the sprocket spacing so that it (say) matches standard 9s then you may be able to squeeze 8 sprockets in, and use standard 9s components (eg. derailleur, chain and shifters) elsewhere.

I think you should forget about shimano CUES unless you are going to buy a full setup; CUES only works with cassette hubs, and use non-standard spacing in 9s form.

Ok, given the feedback, I am abandoning that idea in favour of maximising the older, compatible, technology. Given your above post, moving from 5 to 7 speed should be ok? Then I would look to the smaller chainring up front.

To fit a 7 speed screw on block you will need to re-space the axle and re-dish the wheel and fit a 7 speed shifter.
It’s most likely the chainrings are riveted on a cheap chainset like that, so swapping a chainring will be an issue

531colin wrote: ↑14 Aug 2024, 8:26am To fit a 7 speed screw on block you will need to re-space the axle and re-dish the wheel and fit a 7 speed shifter.
It’s most likely the chainrings are riveted on a cheap chainset like that, so swapping a chainring will be an issue

Hmm yes they did look like rivets when I was looking yesterday. I thought maybe they were just small allen keys but looked more like rounded holes one side and smooth surfaces the other.

In which case, depending on price, would I have to get a whole new set and cranks as well? If so this does make me steer more towards giving up! I guess these parts might be cheap too like the rest?

Can I still use the cranks and just replace the chainrings? Or would they likely all be 'fused' together?

---

Ok just to explore the other alternative what about something like this:

https://www.gumtree.com/p/bicycles/diam ... 1480531169

Only £120.

If getting another one I would want to make sure it was somewhat future proofed and compatible to upgrade as in not just another cheapo where I would effectively be in the same position.

As I know nothing about current bikes perhaps you good folks could advise as I can continue to weigh up options.

Is that a good make and give room for improvements should I so choose?

Looking at their profile they seem to be selling a lot more: https://www.gumtree.com/profile/account ... 4ffb99cf3a

It does make one wonder, also given the lack of feedback on the account, how they have come about so many bikes and they seem (to my untrained eye) pretty good bikes a lot of them for a lower price than I would expect. Do they look like they could be fell off the back of a lorry fare?

biker38109 wrote: ↑14 Aug 2024, 8:32am In which case, depending on price, would I have to get a whole new set and cranks as well? If so this does make me steer more towards giving up! I guess these parts might be cheap too like the rest?

Can I still use the cranks and just replace the chainrings? Or would they likely all be 'fused' together?

Whole new chainset. It's a one piece riveted item. And - depending on what make/model and a couple of other factors around general compatibility, potentially a new bottom bracket as well.

biker38109 wrote: ↑14 Aug 2024, 5:58am You may think it a 'lost cause' however I see the unearthing as a learning experience.

Learning that a 20-year old bike that cost £100 brand new is not worth even attempting to fix up... Those British Eagles (and many other ultra-budget brands) are known in the industry as BSO - "bike shaped object". It looks like a bike but is actually just a poor representation of one.

biker38109 wrote: ↑14 Aug 2024, 5:58am I just hate the idea of perceived obsolescence vs. actual obsolescence. People say the same thing to me about my 10+ year old computer or ereader, that they can't see how I could use such old tat and to just buy new stuff, when I find them perfectly fine for my purposes. Sure, older things are not as user friendly, doesn't make them worthless, not to me anyway.

It's not about that - well not entirely. If it was a 20-year old classic MTB or road frame, an item that was top quality in its day and had some degree of classic / retro appeal, I'd be right with you. But this is like the difference between doing up a classic Aston Martin and a "classic" Austin Maxi. The first is actually worth doing; the second was a bag of junk even when it was new.

A bike like that was "designed" to be smashed around an estate, ridden to the park and back, banged up and down a few kerbs, do a few skids and be abandoned in the school bike rack for days at a time. After which, parts on it would be worn out, it's not worth the financial outlay of doing anything with it and in many cases you can't. As you're finding out, parts on it are basic in the extreme and largely not compatible with anything of the current era anyway. Added to which, trying to buy any parts and tools for it other than maybe a set of brake pads quickly exceeds any financial value of the bike.

As a further point re the age of the bike and the fact it's been kept in a shed for many years, I'd check the tyres too. I bet they're perished.

rareposter wrote: ↑14 Aug 2024, 8:52am
...

Learning that a 20-year old bike that cost £100 brand new is not worth even attempting to fix up... Those British Eagles (and many other ultra-budget brands) are known in the industry as BSO - "bike shaped object". It looks like a bike but is actually just a poor representation of one.

..

All good points and well put and rather persuasive. Yes on further contemplation agreeing with all of that now I think. Can you look at my last one above to those gumtree links...any good?

I can keep riding as is and get used to those steep hills and hike-a-bike if necessary! That would be the simplest solution but certainly not the most enjoyable and indeed I would like to cycle more and enjoy riding hills when it is a comfortable ride.

Maybe make do with what I have for now, it is certainly better to be able to get out and have a ride vs. no wheels at all, and keep looking for something better with the guidance of you good folks.

I just found a 32t, 5 speed still in production:

https://thecycleclinic.co.uk/products/i ... -1-5-speed

Almost as much as the classic suntours though thus defeating the purpose.

---

Oh on another tack what are some names of good vintage mountain bike frames that I may be able to pick up for a decent price?

I do like the idea of a hobby project of making a good quality vintage. Some of the parts on this one can be salvaged as I bought a new (circa mid 2000s) back wheel and tires and looking at them they are still in good nick when I was coming to take out the garage.

It is indeed ironic that the one I gave away I got told more than once at the charity shop, by different people, that it was a good frame but I knew no better and did not see myself riding again at the time. That one I think was shimano and said 504 on it from what I recall. I donated that to the charity shop and they were like "are you sure?" C'est la vie.

I was just doing some more reading about changes in what is called mountain biking now vs. the 90s and it seems it is a totally different beast to what it was back then. I was aware of downhill biking and all the garb and what bikes look like (the latter mostly from seeing chavs riding these bikes in the cities). I was unaware that mountain biking now is almost exclusively just downhill stuff. That is what one article said anyway and that what used to be classed as mountain biking would now be more though of as gravel biking.

I have no interest in that downhill stuff. What I like is to ride on road mostly but also light offroad like grass and forestry tracks. I think what I value most is a wide range of gears. Well not wide but just good mid and most imporant really low granny gear! The most fun thing I think is having a great granny gear to get up really steep hills.

That sounds like the opposite of what mountain biking is now as from what I read they mostly take a car up a hill and ride down or on some managed course taking lifts to the top like a ski resort. Sounds rubbish ! to my tastes anyway. Exercise is high on my agenda for cycling while being outside and seeing nice sights while doing it.

531colin wrote: ↑13 Aug 2024, 6:01pm Save yourself the heartache, take it to the dump. Get something that works from a bike recycling charity

That, ever so. You'd be spending so much time fettling you'd never reach the pub.

biker38109 wrote: ↑14 Aug 2024, 9:40am I was just doing some more reading about changes in what is called mountain biking now vs. the 90s and it seems it is a totally different beast to what it was back then...

I was unaware that mountain biking now is almost exclusively just downhill stuff. That is what one article said anyway...

Sounds like you've found one of the increasing proliferation of articles "written" by AI and churned out on websites designed to get clicks and talking points cos that's nonsense. Yes, MTB has developed and expanded hugely and bikes now are way more capable than anything from the 90's - which in turn opens up more technical trails, bigger descents and so on. But to say "it's all just downhill stuff" is plain wrong.

rareposter wrote: ↑14 Aug 2024, 11:13am

biker38109 wrote: ↑14 Aug 2024, 9:40am I was just doing some more reading about changes in what is called mountain biking now vs. the 90s and it seems it is a totally different beast to what it was back then...

I was unaware that mountain biking now is almost exclusively just downhill stuff. That is what one article said anyway...

Sounds like you've found one of the increasing proliferation of articles "written" by AI and churned out on websites designed to get clicks and talking points cos that's nonsense. Yes, MTB has developed and expanded hugely and bikes now are way more capable than anything from the 90's - which in turn opens up more technical trails, bigger descents and so on. But to say "it's all just downhill stuff" is plain wrong.

I'm not sure why people want to blame AI and bots for all questionable content on the internet nowadays. Sure there are growing content mills but there has never been a shorted of humans that write <i>[inappropriate word removed]</i> articles either.

I think this thread has run its course now and my original query is now defunct but it has certainly opened my mind to other questions. I will keep riding this bike 'warts and all' for now. I want to make a new one about making a bike from scratch!