Uneven leg lengths and SPD shims to compensate

[arnsider]

I recently had a Bike fit and my uneven leg lengths came up.
Some years back I broke my left ankle. A while later a chiropodist measured my leg lengths reporting that my right leg was shorter and suggesting the old fracture may have contributed.
This discrepancy may be partiaslly to blame for pain in my right knee.
I had my legs measured lately by a Physio who confirmed a 4mm difference in my lower legs, knee to ankle. The right one shorter.
I have been researching Two Bolt SPD shims but the market seems confusing.
There is a plethora of shims in 1mm thicknesses that cover the footprint of the SPD cleat and these are inexpensive.
It's difficult finding a shim and compatible overlong bolt on sale.
There is also an offering of a much larger shim that stands proud of the sole of your shoe, but there are issues for locating this sort in the furthest back position where I need mine to be.
Does anyone have first hand experience fitting shims to SPD cleats on their recessed MTB/Off Road shoes?

[Cowsham]

Do you find one side of the tyres wearing quicker than the other?

[Audax67]

4 mm is nothing - most people develop such a discrepancy throughout life simply by preferring to put their weight on one leg rather than the other when standing. You can allow for it in a couple of ways: tilt your short-side toe further down than the other, and/or point the nose of your saddle slightly to the short side. This will lower the buttock a bit on that side and raise the other one a bit. Don't overdo it, else ouch.

I've been riding with an 11 mm discrepancy for years and that's all I've done. No problems.

In any case, when you're standing on the pedals your toes will usually be tipped downwards so all the shims will do is move your foot further forward.

[Mike Sales]

As a result of injury, I have one leg shorter.
To help walking I was prescribed a 3/8" lift for a 3/4" discrepancy. A wedge was added to the bottom of a shoe. This is a hassle to do for every pair of new shoes, and some constructions could not be modified. A removable cork wedge, fitting inside the shoe, was tried. I could detect no improvement with either method, and soon gave up on the idea.
Taking up cycling again made a huge amount of difference to my mobility, on or off the bike. I considered various pedal modifications, since my leg action would not be approved of by purists. I got on fine with no prosthetic, and never bothered with anything.
My feeling is that the body is very good at adapting, and my cycling trips became longer and longer. My gammy joint strengthened so that I could ride the distances which so astound the sedentary.
My pedalling action was very irregular, but few remarked on this. My seat height is a rough compromise.
Unfortunately the damn joint has now got worse, but I have had fifty years of rewarding exercise, on and off the bike. At first I was using toe clips, but changed to clipless (Time Atacs) when they came along.
My experience leads me to advise not bothering with any shims, but just give it a try without. Just get the miles in!
I now remember that I chose Atacs because they were said to allow my peculiar action of a swivelling foot. This was betrayed by the wear on the shoe sole.
This is probably not relevant for you.

[KM2]

For spds try something like this.

Or try simple shim of the correct thickness and stick heal material from a cobbler to stop the wear of the cleat, (or floor whichever is the softer.)

[arnsider]

Well, I concede that leg length discepancy is common and quite possibly goes unoticed and unaddressed without too much ado.
The knee to ankle variation will cause most problems and if you have cycled for many years and have knee pain as I have, then Internet bike fitters are telling me that even small variations should be addressed with shims.under the cleat.
I have found two sorts of shim for SPD cleats. One simply goes under the clover leaf cleat. Another type is more sophisticated and has a rectangular support frame that transfers the pressure over a larger area of the shoe sole and makes it walkable.Both come with longer bolts.
If I explored my knee problem privately, it would inmvolve costly CT/MRI scans and radiographs.
Snce the NHS have no interest in these sorts of wear issues, I may as well hedge my bets and try simple and inexpensive remedies.

[Jdsk]

4 mm is nothing - most people develop such a discrepancy throughout life simply by preferring to put their weight on one leg rather than the other when standing.
...

Yes, 4 mm is a very small difference, and is pretty common. Intervention is typically recommended at ≥ 20 mm.

But what's the evidence that it's caused by posture? Thanks.

Jonathan

[Jdsk]

...
Some years back I broke my left ankle. A while later a chiropodist measured my leg lengths reporting that my right leg was shorter and suggesting the old fracture may have contributed.
This discrepancy may be partiaslly to blame for pain in my right knee.
...

Snce the NHS have no interest in these sorts of wear issues, I may as well hedge my bets and try simple and inexpensive remedies.

You've also told us that you have arthritis elsewhere:

I am going through a lot of arthritic pain and discomfort, starting with my thumbs and shoulders.
It has come on quite suddenly and makes rides of over twenty miles progressively more painful.
I ride an e bike with flat bars and Ergo control bar end grips.
I changed my thumb shifters for grip shift and that has made a vast improvement, but now I am getting pain from my elbow joints.
After a longer ride, my elbow joints become stiff and sore and I lose a lot of range of movement in bending the arm at the elbow.
I cannot touch the back of my neck for a couple of days before the swelling subsides.
Is this Arthritic degeneration too?
Any ideas?

I was going to make suggestions about bike fitting, but it sounds to me that it would be better to start by finding a healthcare practitioner whom you trust.

Jonathan

[arnsider]

With respect, I think you will discover that even small leg length discrepancies have far more effects on knee pain when cycling than when walking, that's if bike fitters are to be believed.
There are plenty of cleat shims and wedges available in small increments, so some research must have come up with this concept.
I don't have the financial means to afford a knee specialist who would call for MRI's CT's etc etc. then possibly
an expensive knee operation so it's no bad thing to try to mitigate things with comparatively inexpensive means.
Nothing can be done for arthritis nor tendonitis not shoulder impingement, so I have to make the best of stretching exercises, strapping and pain killers. A good bike fit should obviate a lot of upper body discomfort caused through over reeching, (Handle bars too wide, too low, saddle wrongly tilted and too far back), but impingement and tennis elbow just take time to resolve.
I've seen Osteopaths, Physios and even Chiropractors, but he best therapist for me was a sports masseur who was simply able to relieve the tensions caused by joint inflammation.

[531colin]

…,,, A good bike fit should obviate a lot of upper body discomfort caused through over reeching, (Handle bars too wide, too low, saddle wrongly tilted and too far back),……

On the other hand, saddle too far forward throws your weight forward onto your hands. Set the saddle so that you have very little weight on your hands, so you can let go of the bars without falling forwards

[arnsider]

That's good advice and my fitter has taken this into account as a matter of course.
Bike Fits take into account all styles of riding and are not just aimed at racing cyclists or time trialists.
It's perefectly conceivable that years of riding with the wrong set up can cause no end of problems and as we age, these will worsen arthritis and joint disorders.

[becontreewheelerslad]

For what its worth, I have a little experience to pass on.
I used 6mm stack on the left shoe for my Look Delta cleats for about 10 years, following a bike fit.

I moved to new Shimano SPD SL pedals last year and decided to experiment with having no stack at all. So far, no serious issues have cropped up in 18 months, over and above those expected after 60 plus years of wear and tear that I have anyway ! Dealt with by stretching/yoga moves.

[borisface]

You think you've got problems? I have one leg longer than the other!

Following a bikefit about 15 years ago, I was advised to use speedplay zero pedals which allowed you to place spacers underneath the cleat. However, I changed pedal systems to Time about 4 years ago, discarded the spacers and haven't had a problem. Doing a bit of yoga now and again seems to help.

[LWaB]

My Young Lady corrects a 10mm leg length difference with some combination of 5mm cycling orthotic (walking orthotics concentrate on correcting the heel, not the ball where the cleat is), a 5mm shorter crank and a particular SPD shim. Standard SPD shims can make it difficult to get into the pedal or walk at a coffee shop. The integral pontoons perform the job of the shoe’s tread.
https://fitkitsystems.com/product/leg-l ... lkable-v2/