Flogoderm, the wonder cream

[al_yrpal]

10 years ago I was suffering a lot of pain from a badly bruised shoulder. In Cyprus I met a footballer who said that he all his mates used Flogoderm to relieve pain caused by sports injuries. He sent me to the local pharmacy to buy some. It worked, boy did it work, instant relief, the pain subsided by about 90%. Continuing its use over several weeks seemed to remove the pain altogether

My Mrs has recently been suffering from neck pain. She tried ibuprofin gel which gave a little help, but only for a short time. She has visited a Physio who also does acupuncture at £40 a session over several weeks, that hasnt worked either. I persuaded her to try Flogoderm which she wasnt keen on because she thought it contained a steroid (it doesnt its wholly herbal). The result was once again instant relief and daily use over a week has removed her pain.

My questions are has anyone tried Flogoderm or alternatively any pain relieving cream based on Capiscum? Did they work? How do such creams work given that they work far better than things like ibuprofin gel offering results that seem to heal pain permanently.

https://www.pharmacypanayiotou.com/prod ... -capsicum/

A lot of pain relief products claim to restore microcirculation and remove inflammation. That seems to imply that the injury damaged blood circulation?

Flogoderm isnt available here and it costs a lot to get it sent from a Greek pharmacy. Are there alternatives available in the UK that work?

Al

[Jdsk]

How do such creams work...

Capsaicin: Mechanism of action:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capsaicin ... _of_action

The Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine 2021:
https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/medic ... s-release/

For evidence on whether they "work" or not, NB the range of conditions studied:
https://www.cochrane.org/CD010538/MUSKE ... oarthritis
https://www.cochrane.org/CD007393/SYMPT ... ain-adults
https://www.cochrane.org/CD008921/MUSKE ... -arthritis
https://www.cochrane.org/CD008609/SYMPT ... eally-work

NHS advice on capsaicin in osteoarthritis:
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/osteoarthritis/treatment/

Jonathan

[rjb]

Bring back the birch. Some posters here could do with a good flogging.

[Cugel]

Bring back the birch. Some posters here could do with a good flogging.

My derm was flogged enough by teacher-martinets decades ago so I reckons I've had my share an' don't want for any more.

I can see Al flogging his derm, though - a traditional pastime in Georgian houses, or so I read.

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It does sound like an interesting goo - although I have no need (yet) for such stuff myself. Why is something equivalent not famous here if it's so good? You'd have thought the Bwitish, often infesting Cyprus & Greece, would have brought it back inclusive of an import agreement.

[Jdsk]

Flogoderm is probably derived from Ancient Greek phlogosis = burning heat leading to a medical meaning of inflammation. Same root as the non-existent phlogiston.

Flog in English has a separate Germanic root, something to do with hitting or tools that hit.

Jonathan

[Jdsk]

The use of capsaicin for pain relief is well-known in the UK. Capsaicin cream is available:
https://bnf.nice.org.uk/drugs/capsaicin/

Jonathan

[al_yrpal]

Its a funny name, but Flogoderm has turned out to be a very useful treatnent remedying pain that paracetamol, ibuprofin or ibuprofin gel couldnt alleviate in our cases. The company that make it make several other herbal products too.
All cyclists will get aches and pains from time to time so remember Capiscum cream for such events. Makes me wonder why GPs dont recommend it when patients turn up with aches and pains?

Al

[Jdsk]

Its a funny name, but Flogoderm has turned out to be a very useful treatnent remedying pain that paracetamol, ibuprofin or ibuprofin gel couldnt alleviate in our cases.
All cyclists will get aches and pains from time to time so remember Capiscum cream for such events. Makes me wonder why GPs dont recommend it when patients turn up with aches and pains?

1 There's a lot of variation in individual response to topical analgesics.

2 Capsaicin has adverse effects, as do those other drugs.

3 It isn't clear that capsaicin cream is more or less effective than any of the others for "aches and pains". But see the systematic reviews for other conditions linked upthread.

4 GPs do prescribe capsaicin cream. I would guess most commonly after something else hasn't worked for the individual patient.

Jonathan

[roubaixtuesday]

It's worth noting that the placebo effect is extremely strong in pain relief, so positive personal experience is a very poor predictor of a more general benefit to others.

If you genuinely believe you're taking a wonder cream, it it likely to actually work, regardless as to what it is.

It's a brilliant name though.

[Jdsk]

It's worth noting that the placebo effect is extremely strong in pain relief, so positive personal experience is a very poor predictor of a more general benefit to others.
...

And a lot of the conditions are self-limiting... why are the keys always in the last place that you look?

Jonathan

[Cugel]

Flogoderm is probably derived from Ancient Greek phlogosis = burning heat leading to a medical meaning of inflammation. Same root as the non-existent phlogiston.

Flog in English has a separate Germanic root, something to do with hitting or tools that hit.

Jonathan

My poor personage did get burning-hot when it was hit with a teacher tool, even Mrs Biggs' gym slipper. Obviously the same etymological root, then.

Myself, I occasionally flog a froe with a beetle and this makes me hot, 'though not the froe or beetle or the riven log, even.

[Cugel]

Its a funny name, but Flogoderm has turned out to be a very useful treatnent remedying pain that paracetamol, ibuprofin or ibuprofin gel couldnt alleviate in our cases. The company that make it make several other herbal products too.
All cyclists will get aches and pains from time to time so remember Capiscum cream for such events. Makes me wonder why GPs dont recommend it when patients turn up with aches and pains?

Al

I yam looking for this peppery goo and will try it if I find some, possibly on a tired & aching wrist got from wafting a large steel & brass jackplane about for too long.

[Cugel]

It's worth noting that the placebo effect is extremely strong in pain relief, so positive personal experience is a very poor predictor of a more general benefit to others.

If you genuinely believe you're taking a wonder cream, it it likely to actually work, regardless as to what it is.

It's a brilliant name though.

I am a strong believer in the placebo, which is a rare flowering cactus found in Northern Mexico, or so I have heard. Some say that the side effects can be rather alarming, including visions of beaked rabbits emitting fantastic wisdom that you can't remember later. Perhaps if one just rubs placebo-cream on the ache, it will not only unache it but form a small mouth from one's fleshy part which emits similar wisdom, advising on the semantics of this and that for example.

[Biospace]

Flogoderm is probably derived from Ancient Greek phlogosis = burning heat leading to a medical meaning of inflammation. Same root as the non-existent phlogiston.

Flog in English has a separate Germanic root, something to do with hitting or tools that hit.

Jonathan

My poor personage did get burning-hot when it was hit with a teacher tool, even Mrs Biggs' gym slipper. Obviously the same etymological root, then.

Quite possibly there is an etymological link between fire and flog. I hope you weren't branded!

This prompted me to brush up on my rather rusty (geddit anyone, given Jdsk's comment?) Greek. Is it a little phelgmatic to reason that "dephlogisticated air" was once a thing, some may say still is? A timely reminder that science moves on, from one set of theories to the next with revolutions rarely emerging from the centre ground.

Phlégma (that which has been burned, or inflamed, Hipp.med. bodily fluid) derives from phlégō (to burn or inflame) and phlóx (a flame), Gen. phlogós are a nominal derivation from that verb whereas phlóxa is a more poetic and generalised meaning for a blaze, from which phlogōsis (the condition of inflammation) derives. Phlogerós may be translated as fiery, burning or flaming.

The ancient Greeks loved wordplay and although I can't find any instance of interplay with phlogós and lógos, it is suggested that as Heraclitus spoke of reason as the rational principle governing the universe and frequently used fire as the symbol for this rational order, there is a hint that both Proto-Indo-European roots are linked with the gathering of people and reason around fires.

Although I doubt Mrs Biggs considered this, before wielding her slipper. I was always told it hurt them more than me.

[Cugel]

Flogoderm is probably derived from Ancient Greek phlogosis = burning heat leading to a medical meaning of inflammation. Same root as the non-existent phlogiston.

Flog in English has a separate Germanic root, something to do with hitting or tools that hit.

Jonathan

My poor personage did get burning-hot when it was hit with a teacher tool, even Mrs Biggs' gym slipper. Obviously the same etymological root, then.

Quite possibly there is an etymological link between fire and flog. I hope you weren't branded!

This prompted me to brush up on my rather rusty (geddit anyone, given Jdsk's comment?) Greek. Is it a little phelgmatic to reason that "dephlogisticated air" was once a thing, some may say still is? A timely reminder that science moves on, from one set of theories to the next with revolutions rarely emerging from the centre ground.

Phlégma (that which has been burned, or inflamed, Hipp.med. bodily fluid) derives from phlégō (to burn or inflame) and phlóx (a flame), Gen. phlogós are a nominal derivation from that verb whereas phlóxa is a more poetic and generalised meaning for a blaze, from which phlogōsis (the condition of inflammation) derives. Phlogerós may be translated as fiery, burning or flaming.

The ancient Greeks loved wordplay and although I can't find any instance of interplay with phlogós and lógos, it is suggested that as Heraclitus spoke of reason as the rational principle governing the universe and frequently used fire as the symbol for this rational order, there is a hint that both Proto-Indo-European roots are linked with the gathering of people and reason around fires.

Although I doubt Mrs Biggs considered this, before wielding her slipper. I was always told it hurt them more than me.

[Moderator note - post edited for breach of the Forum Guidelines.]

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I'l now take the opportunity to beat me meme-drum by mentioning in passing that it seems significant that the meaning of words (and the results of them using us) does seem to be an evolutionary process hosted but not directed by we geneplexes.

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The ineffective us of gym slippers on the hardened carcasses of rude boys & girls of my school years certainly hurt the pride of some would-be martinets - those "teachers" who eagerly embraced the flog-'em meme but were unable to exert sufficient force or fear during the process. I recall one nicknamed "Debbie Darnton" (an insult redolent of various prejudices of the time) as his ineffective wielding of a bunsen burner rubber gas tube applied little or no effect to the nether of those he chose to attempt to employ as a demo of his 1950s manliness.

To be honest, I was much more wary of the "dark sarcasm" of a small grey haired lady teacher, generally mild and nice but able to completely deflate a would-be rude lad or lass with just a word or seven and a little smile.