Spoke tension? (creaky wheel)

[andrew_s]

I'm a musician so it's natural that I would like the idea of using pitch to gauge spoke tension. I use a guitar that I know is tuned to concert pitch. I think it's probably better to compare to an actual note. Maybe something like this online piano (switch the note names on)

https://www.onlinepianist.com/virtual-piano

If that's a bit difficult then maybe a digital tuner would work but I haven't tried it. It's definitely easier to hear a clear pitch if the spokes are plucked where they cross.

The simplest use case is checking for even spoke tension. It should be relatively easy to hear if the pitch goes up or down from one spoke to another.

All this is useless advice for someone with cloth ears like me.

There is an iphone app that will listen to spokes being plucked and tell you what the tension is (if given spoke/wheel size etc).

[SprokenBroke]

I'm a musician so it's natural that I would like the idea of using pitch to gauge spoke tension. I use a guitar that I know is tuned to concert pitch. I think it's probably better to compare to an actual note. Maybe something like this online piano (switch the note names on)

https://www.onlinepianist.com/virtual-piano

If that's a bit difficult then maybe a digital tuner would work but I haven't tried it. It's definitely easier to hear a clear pitch if the spokes are plucked where they cross.

The simplest use case is checking for even spoke tension. It should be relatively easy to hear if the pitch goes up or down from one spoke to another.

All this is useless advice for someone with cloth ears like me.

There is an iphone app that will listen to spokes being plucked and tell you what the tension is (if given spoke/wheel size etc).

Looks interesting. It's also on Android. Worth trying out I reckon.

[mister_ed]

what sort of a creak is this? intermittent? once per revolution type? continual noise?

Some of the above It wasn't exactly continuous, and it wasn't cleanly once per revolution, or at lest not reliably enough to identify it as such. Certainly increased with increasing weight on the front wheel.

Anyway the spokes were loose and I tightened them and now the bike is running smoothly and quietly.

[Brucey]

...... Gave a couple of creaks when I first got back on then stopped completely, even when really hauling on the front brake.....

probably the noises you heard were caused by a few spokes untwisting themselves, which they will do if they are left with much residual twist in them. This is usually nothing to worry about; the wheel seldom goes so far out of true that it needs re-truing.

What is worth doing is stress-relieving the wheel. There are various methods; I am a 'spoke squeezer' myself.

[Cyclothesist]

...... Gave a couple of creaks when I first got back on then stopped completely, even when really hauling on the front brake.....

probably the noises you heard were caused by a few spokes untwisting themselves, which they will do if they are left with much residual twist in them. This is usually nothing to worry about; the wheel seldom goes so far out of true that it needs re-truing.

What is worth doing is stress-relieving the wheel. There are various methods; I am a 'spoke squeezer' myself.

Stress relieving spokes by momentarily over-stressing them is one of those things that seems counterintuitive. How does that work Brucey?

[Steve O'C]

Stress relieving spokes by momentarily over-stressing them is one of those things that seems counterintuitive. How does that work Brucey?

While waiting for this forums guru here is what Jobst Brandt had to say about it.

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/str ... eving.html

[531colin]

.......
Stress relieving spokes by momentarily over-stressing them is one of those things that seems counterintuitive. How does that work Brucey?

This might help, and if it doesn't at least me posting will keep the thread alive!.....beaten to it!
viewtopic.php?t=110419&hilit=screwfix

I should have learned a bit about all this in my years on this forum, but I have no background in this sort of thing.......
Its my recollection that others have posted that all sorts of manipulations the spokes go through build up stresses in the wire.....
these manipulations include....
drawing the wire, drawing butting profiles in the wire
forming the bend, head and thread
building the wheel, including re-forming the elbow bend and any bend at the nipple.
Stress-relieving is intended to take the spoke metal past "yield point" so that the wire is permanently bent into the appropriate shape, rather than flexed to fit. I don't know what happens to the structure of the metal!

[Cyclothesist]

Thanks both Steve and Colin

[Brucey]

all you know about any spoke, new or old, is that the residual stresses must be in some kind of balance. Many of the manufacturing processes (eg. drawing and swaging) are likely to leave a set of residual stresses that are actually beneficial. However, it is pretty much impossible to build a wheel without creating fresh bends, and any bend (including those used in manufacturing) will leave an extremely harmful pattern of residual stress behind. A controlled overload in tension leaves the same, much less harmful, pattern of residual stress behind regardless of the previous residual stress pattern. Better yet, the areas with the highest levels of damaging tensile residual stress are self-selecting and will approach yield before any other. So even if the treatment is not/cannot be approaching general yield, it may do some good.