Family cycling culture - could Britain be like Germany?

[mjr]

Thanks. My wife and I used to do the Suffolk Historic Churches rides.

I don't doubt that there are plenty of encouraging words for family cycling in the UK. My impression is that it happens in Germany with less encouragement, unless you call decent infrastructure encouragement.

My comment was about the lack of encouragement in this forum! : - (

The Ride and Stride day is an excellent opportunity for family cycling, and it wasn't mentioned...

It's next Saturday. And again no mention in this forum. I don't understand this.

https://ridestride.org

I have no inclination to promote it since they added 'drive' to the ride and stride some years ago. Many churches are up little lanes and having a load of cars on them with us has really reduced my enjoyment of the event. I also don't feel it's a fun ride for families because of this.

[Jdsk]

I have no inclination to promote it since they added 'drive' to the ride and stride some years ago.

I didn't know any counties were including this. Ours isn't.

Jonathan

[mjr]

I have no inclination to promote it since they added 'drive' to the ride and stride some years ago.

I didn't know any counties were including this. Ours isn't.

Norfolk ("Bike Ride & Walk & Drive") and Suffolk ("Pedal and Drive") both have it in their event titles now. Cambridgeshire don't have it in the title yet and say they don't encourage car use but tolerate it in some circumstances. Lincolnshire obliquely say they encourage 'inventive' travel. I'm not in range of other counties for this.

[plancashire]

It's next Saturday. And again no mention in this forum. I don't understand this.

https://ridestride.org

Jonathan

For my own part, I had not heard anything about it and did not know it existed until I looked in this thread. I suspect you may be the only forum regular who does know of it, in which case no-one has mentioned it because like me they did not know of it.

The text of the home page of that website does not make it at all clear that it is an event featuring family cycling, or that it is open to all.

[snip]

Writing a web page to attract people is not as easy as one thinks. The church people were likely writing it for their community, not necessarily for others. To do that you have to put yourself in the position of an outsider who knows nothing but whose interest might be piqued if the first few lines are right.

I notice how hard this is for many by the number of websites where opening hours and a map are very hard to find.

I did a course on human-computer interaction with the OU some time ago, hence my slightly nerdy interest in this.

Maybe the best way in this specific case would be to contact the people responsible for the website and politely make some helpful suggestions?

[mjr]

I do it because at least two group members are keen on it, but there are roadside and church signs in most East Anglian counties.

However, the event has a different name in some places:
Norfolk - bike ride & walk & drive
Suffolk - pedal and drive
Beds/Herts - bike 'n' hike
Cornwall - Maker with Rame Sponsored Bike Ride

And it varies whether it is safe / friendly to cycle or if the church lanes will be hogged by motorists:
- driving in the event name - Norfolk, Suffolk
- cars encouraged - Berks, Hants, Shrops (it's only "or by bike if you are young-ish and energetic"! Ageist ableist prigs!), Somerset, Sussex, Warks, Worcs
- cars tolerated - Cambs, Beds/Herts, Devon, Notts, Oxon, Rutland
- cars discouraged - Bucks (oddly, it says it's open to "anyone using a non-mechanical form of transport"), Gloucs, Kent, Northants
- unknown at a glance - Cheshire, Cornwall, Dorset, Essex, Leics, Staffs, Surrey, Wilts, Yorks

Herefordshire is linked on the national site but no longer participates.

There's also the problems of many of the events pushing 'safety' clothing, and some rewarding speed (high numbers of churches visited, or similar) with publicity or prizes, which often results in some fast antisocial riding (or worse, driving in some counties).

[Carlton green]

In relation to another of my interests I recently realised that it is better for the imperfect to attend and try than for none to attend because they are imperfect; sometimes pragmatism is necessary as otherwise nothing happens. All this critical talk of people getting to events isn’t helpful, whilst I’d rather people used either public or active transport the more important thing by far is that they’re there and supporting the event. Once people are engaged then the participants might either discover or be led towards better travel options, we should be supporting people who are giving walking and cycling events a try and see the much bigger picture.

[drossall]

Well said.

[mattheus]

Thanks. My wife and I used to do the Suffolk Historic Churches rides.

I don't doubt that there are plenty of encouraging words for family cycling in the UK. My impression is that it happens in Germany with less encouragement, unless you call decent infrastructure encouragement.

My comment was about the lack of encouragement in this forum! : - (

The Ride and Stride day is an excellent opportunity for family cycling, and it wasn't mentioned...

It's next Saturday. And again no mention in this forum. I don't understand this.

https://ridestride.org

Jonathan

I don't understand why you left it until 7 days-to-go to promote it!

(still, better than nothing ... )

[Nearholmer]

Whoa; too short notice.

I love visiting churches, although it’s a surprise the fonts don’t crack as I enter, given my view of organised religions, and would definitely have given this a go if I hadn’t already arranged something else for that day.

If anyone “does” North Bucks, be sure to include Stewkley. If South Northants, then Earl’s Barton. In fact, I could suggest an itinerary starting at Northampton station, ending at Leighton Buzzard station, to include both, and many more interesting ones besides.

[mjr]

In relation to another of my interests I recently realised that it is better for the imperfect to attend and try than for none to attend because they are imperfect; sometimes pragmatism is necessary as otherwise nothing happens. All this critical talk of people getting to events isn’t helpful, whilst I’d rather people used either public or active transport the more important thing by far is that they’re there and supporting the event. Once people are engaged then the participants might either discover or be led towards better travel options, we should be supporting people who are giving walking and cycling events a try and see the much bigger picture.

Why should we all hold hands and sing kumbaya and pretend this event is still enjoyable for families and occasional riders when recent experience is the exact opposite, with the event getting steadily worse in the years I've been attending it?

Cycling and walking participants are basically being led towards driving in the counties that allow it, both by the random unpleasant experiences of being close-passed on lanes leading to churches, and by simply having ridden your heart out to arrive at your twelfth or so church of the day at the same time as a driver arrives at their twenty-fifth. Let's face it, that's going to make most non-CTC-types think "hmm, it's easier and safer by car" (even if it isn't) "and I could see more churches". Most of the church welcomers don't seem impressed by the walkers or cyclists any more when the drivers rack up so many more.

Maybe critical talk isn't helpful directly, but neither is encouraging newcomers to try this car-maimed event. I've tried contacting the county organisers privately and naff-all happened. I hesitate to video the horrible incidents that now happen and publish or report them, as I fear that may either kill the event here or result in them doubling-down on the safety theatre, or possibly even discouraging cycling the event. I'd love any help or tips about how we could kick the cars out of the event, or at least put them right on the sidelines.

[mjr]

In fact, I could suggest an itinerary starting at Northampton station, ending at Leighton Buzzard station, to include both, and many more interesting ones besides.

Just a small note: the event is currently organised on some sort of hybrid county/diocese borders, so crossing between Northants, Bucks and Beds would mean you'd have to pick which of the three to be sponsored for. Also, it's my experience that the churches nearest those borders are less likely to be participating and sometimes aren't even unlocked on the day.

[Jdsk]

I love visiting churches, although it’s a surprise the fonts don’t crack as I enter, given my view of organised religions, and would definitely have given this a go if I hadn’t already arranged something else for that day.

Militant atheist here. And the day is an excellent opportunity to educate the children.

English parish churches are one of the great architectural achievements. We now need to find a way of maintaining them and using them for the common good. It's fascinating to see how different churches are approaching this.

Jonathan

[Carlton green]

I love visiting churches, although it’s a surprise the fonts don’t crack as I enter, given my view of organised religions, and would definitely have given this a go if I hadn’t already arranged something else for that day.

Militant atheist here. And the day is an excellent opportunity to educate the children.

English parish churches are one of the great architectural achievements. We now need to find a way of maintaining them and using them for the common good. It's fascinating to see how different churches are approaching this.

Jonathan

I’m neither an atheist or a regular church attender, and am content for people to follow their preferred path - well so long as they respect others.

Education can be a wonderful thing, indoctrination less so and at times there is but a fine line between the two.

‘Our’ Churches are indeed wonderful things and it’s my belief that society should treasure and preserve those buildings; what happens inside of them should be either for local good or (imho) for God - they are, after all, buildings provided to their local communities by believers and honouring their gift is somewhat appropriate. YMMV.

[Richard Fairhurst]

FWIW Oxford Diocese expressly says the event is for "walkers as well as horse-riders and cyclists – in fact to anyone using a non-mechanical form of transport", which is slightly unfortunate wording - I'm pretty sure my bike counts as mechanical! - but you know what they mean. I've certainly never heard of cars taking part in the Oxfordshire event. The Bishop of Dorchester, who covers the county of Oxfordshire (but not the city of Oxford), is an active cyclist and rides it every year.

Of course, the really fun one to do is Rutland, where you have a fighting chance of covering every church in the county in one day. Rutland is hillier than you think though…

[Jdsk]

...
Of course, the really fun one to do is Rutland, where you have a fighting chance of covering every church in the county in one day. Rutland is hillier than you think though…

Oxford city has an amazing number of (participating) churches. We used to visit those to get the numbers up, but with small children it's much more fun out in the country.

Jonathan