eBikes - is there a way back?

[LittleGreyCat]

Due to persistent lack of fitness I have finally conceded and bought an eBike.

I can now take part in U3A Group Rides of around 20 miles, and keep up with the group again.

I am pretty sure my fitness is improving as I still work at the cycling; most assistance is used on really steep hills.
At some point I would like to move back to a human powered bike for some rides, but the prospect is still a bit daunting.

Has anyone moved to an eBike for fitness reasons and then gained enough fitness to move back to leg powered bikes for some rides (that is, similar distance to eBike rides)?

[Carlton green]

A first response which might, perhaps, either be some help or prompt better answers.

I was chatting to an old guy the other day who had been a life long cyclist and now, so that he could keep up and do the distance, used an e-bike for group rides. For other riding he didn’t use an e-bike but just went slower and could rest when he wanted, etc. So, extrapolating from his experience, I’d say that using your e-bike to keep cycling is great and that you may well be able to manage some suitably paced unassisted rides too.

As an aside I suspect that with the advent of e-bikes the pace of group rides has increased.

[gbnz]

No, but isn't it no different to returning to any form of fitness?

Suppose I've found since 2018, that when I've had five breaks to a leg, a hip, a thigh, a pelvis, multiple ribs, couple of shoulders, a collar bone, a skull, a wrist, 12" lengths of metal knocked into bones to rebuild bones around, knee knackered, an ankle issue, that it's simply a case of making a respectable effort. When have drowned, or been unconscious for a few days haven't been able to, but aside from now typically walking the steepest stretches on the moors, have simply got on a bicycle and ridden.

Was difficult end of January '23, left leg seemed to have been partially paralysed, couldn't move it more than a typical 5mm for two months. But sure enough, as slowly worked my way back onto the bicycle from February/March that year, have evolved to a state where the pedal can be rotated quite normally, merely restrain putting full effort into pushing on that leg (Nb. The leg had been shortened, can actually feel notable pressure being exerted within knee joint in particular, so do feel it's better to restrain putting too much pressure on the joint)

Get on your bicycle and ride. Suppose if someone's got an absolute physiological issue preventing anything being done, it would be impossible, but otherwise if you're enjoying cycling, get on a bike and ride. Doesn't really matter if it's a 5mh average, or 20mph, it's only by doing it that any enjoyment and/or improvement can be experienced (Nb. Used to do a quick 20 mile circular at 20mph, now only tend to be around 12-13mph avg on such a run. Likewise, have hardly had a single ride up to 85 mile length this year, whereas a 60-80 mile route used to be routine). Do it and enjoy it, or continue using the E Bike

[Cugel]

Due to persistent lack of fitness I have finally conceded and bought an eBike.

I can now take part in U3A Group Rides of around 20 miles, and keep up with the group again.

I am pretty sure my fitness is improving as I still work at the cycling; most assistance is used on really steep hills.
At some point I would like to move back to a human powered bike for some rides, but the prospect is still a bit daunting.

Has anyone moved to an eBike for fitness reasons and then gained enough fitness to move back to leg powered bikes for some rides (that is, similar distance to eBike rides)?

Your case is not quite the same as mine but maybe it has useful parallels.

I have two non-e-bikes (road summer and winter bikes) as well as two e-bikes that are similar bikes but with motors. The motors are the Fazua type and the e-bikes typically weigh 5 kilos more than the non e-bikes but are otherwise very similar in frameset, gearing et al.

The e-bikes were got so I could keep up with the ladywife on her e-bike when it came to the numerous Welsh hills; and to allow longer and otherwise harder rides that the landscape around here provides.

I'm 75 and still quite fit (regular cycling, swimming, gym and every-morning long dog walks in a hilly forest).

Although I still go out regularly on the un-motored bikes (my last three rides were on the summer version) I like to use the e-bike when going out with the ladywife (to stick-on up the hills) or if going for longer rides over newer (to me) roads.

How does that answer you question?

Well, strange as it may sound, going out on the e-bike has actually improved my bike-fitness as I find I'm going a bit better on the unpowered bikes than I used to. How come?

Partly its doing more miles because you know you can without finding yourself miles from home and knackered. Just switch on the motor.

Another factor is that the knowledge of the motor's help, if needed, allows harder un-motored efforts up hills or on the flat because if you get close to or beyond the limit, you won't go phut - or you might but the motor will make up for the phut.

Another possible factor - the e-bike is 5kg heavier so requires, with the motor off, more pedal power from the rider when going up hills at a rate similar to that when riding the non-e bikes. I only use the motor for the steeper and longer hills so I still ride the e-bike with the motor off up the "easier" slopes, which are constant around here. I do try harder because of that extra 5kg, although I don't really know why I do.

In short, the e-bike provides a psychological and physical method for trying harder, in various ways and, thus, getting fitter.

************
Incidentally, although its not part of your question, I'll mention that a Fazua-equipped e-bike can be your single bike for both e and non-e riding. The motor and battery unit can be removed and replaced with a blank case, making the bike ride like a normal bike whilst also being 3.5kg lighter.

[Jdsk]

Due to persistent lack of fitness I have finally conceded and bought an eBike.

I can now take part in U3A Group Rides of around 20 miles, and keep up with the group again.

I am pretty sure my fitness is improving as I still work at the cycling; most assistance is used on really steep hills.
At some point I would like to move back to a human powered bike for some rides, but the prospect is still a bit daunting.

Has anyone moved to an eBike for fitness reasons and then gained enough fitness to move back to leg powered bikes for some rides (that is, similar distance to eBike rides)?

What's the eBIke? And how is it unsuitable for what you want when the assistance is turned off?

Jonathan

[Psamathe]

I've no experience of switching (never having ridden an e-bike) but
1. Do you still have an unassisted cycle?

2. Do you have to ride in groups and over a set distance?

ie can you start doing some rides on the unassisted bike alone. Maybe a few flat miles initially building distance and hills over time until youy are at the point where you have the fitness and/or confidence to start on the unassisted group rides. Of course you can stay with the assisted group rides, just do the unassisted bike rides on other days.

But above just speculative thoughts NOT based on experience.

Ian

[brianleach]

As the saying goes it all depends.

If the purpose of the ebike is to keep up with someone else or a group I suspect not.

I have virtually given up on my local CTC Easy rides because it consists predominantly of ebikes. The leaders do their best but the difference in speed is just impossible to accommodate I feel.

Fortunately being a miserable sod I am quite happy to go out on my own non ebike. I plan my own routes to avoid as many hills as possible but I then go up them slowly or heaven forbid get off and walk. The group rides would just sail up untroubled of course and they do seem to chose hilly routes which of course aren't an issue with ebikes.

When I commuted to London I cycled to the train station and used to get to the platform very sweaty so I had my shopping bike converted by a local company. This meant I arrived in a more sociable state!!!

However despite what the company claims (and indeed what other local riders seem to achieve) the range was never acceptable for group rides. So it was never an option for group rides.

So now if I am going somewhere local and therefore hilly I use the ebike. If I want a group type ride I go on my own.

Although the ebike requires pedalling I don't think it would ever improve fitness sufficiently to join a group ride and there is a tendency to use the motor to give just a little help if the going gets tough!!!!

[Psamathe]

...
I have virtually given up on my local CTC Easy rides because it consists predominantly of ebikes. The leaders do their best but the difference in speed is just impossible to accommodate I feel.
...

I know a retired dutch couple living in the Netherlands who arrange and guide group rides for retired age group and they say it's a massive problem they've been unable to solve. Many with e-bikes wont go into a separate group but insist on riding with the un-assisted group except the e-bikes are massively faster and it's impossible to keep the group together. One theory they have is it's a way for the e-bikers to feel good about their fitness as they are up there in the faster cyclists, other can't keep up (ignoring they have batteries and motors making them faster).

Ian

[brianleach]

One theory they have is it's a way for the e-bikers to feel good about their fitness as they are up there in the faster cyclists, other can't keep up (ignoring they have batteries and motors making them faster).

I can see this might be an issue but I really don't feel any of the folk in the group I used to ride with fall into that category. They enjoy their ride (and why not) and are just blissfully unaware of us unassisted types!!!

[simonineaston]

My experience is that an e-bike is deffo not the end of a cycling career! I’ve had a ‘leccy Brompton since 2017 and it has meant that I have kept cycling, full stop. I still have a normal bike and use it when I can. The assistance I get on my ‘leccy job is very welcome in certain circumstances and I’m crystal clear in my mind that one of the ways it helps is to get me out and onto a bike where I might, due to one thing and another, be tempted not to bother.
The trick in my view is not to think of the change to an assisted cycle as a failure, but instead a step forward to using technology to keep on cycling and to enjoy it as much as possible

[PH]

I have virtually given up on my local CTC Easy rides because it consists predominantly of ebikes. The leaders do their best but the difference in speed is just impossible to accommodate I feel.

That's a real shame, but it doesn't have to be like that. I've ridden lots of CTC rides with a mix of bikes and led a fair few as well, the leader dictates the pace and should make it clear they're doing so. I don't know any E-bike riders who don't appreciated the advantage they have. I've seen more issues when a couple of riders push the pace and have to be reined in, maybe it's ego, but more of other riders feel the need to keep up with them than they do with a motor.
We have riders who use both assisted and unassisted bikes, they'll choose which depending on the ride or how they're feeling, but there's no reason using an assisted bike when needed and unassisted when not should be a problem. Whether you'll want to is a different question, I know some who like to have the reassurance even if they don't always need, or use, the assistance.

[Cugel]

My experience is that an e-bike is deffo not the end of a cycling career! I’ve had a ‘leccy Brompton since 2017 and it has meant that I have kept cycling, full stop. I still have a normal bike and use it when I can. The assistance I get on my ‘leccy job is very welcome in certain circumstances and I’m crystal clear in my mind that one of the ways it helps is to get me out and onto a bike where I might, due to one thing and another, be tempted not to bother.
The trick in my view is not to think of the change to an assisted cycle as a failure, but instead a step forward to using technology to keep on cycling and to enjoy it as much as possible

Yes, this is the fundamental point of an e-bike, in contrast to the fundamental point of an e-motorbike, which is for getting about with no significant effort. The e-bike requires not just significant effort but sometimes a greater effort than a non-powered bike. As soon as you go over 15.5mph, you're pedalling a heavier bike than if your were on a similar un-motored bike. Those undulating roads along which you go at 17 mph or more will be that bit more demanding. You'll get fitter!

Group riding with mixed powered and unpowered bikes ...... . The behavior of the group has little to do with the motors and everything to do with the attitudes of the various riders. If its a group ride, those who pay attention to the meaning of "group" will be the better riders to go out with, with or without a motor. It's easy enough adapt your motor power selection and your own pedalling effort so everyone can stay together, matching the max speed of individuals in different circs.

Of course, many groups are, these days, polluted with Strava-strivers and their queer attitudes; or even just those data-obsessives with their eyes glued to the average speed digits on their gizmo.

[brianleach]

That's a real shame

My comment was of course a sweeping generalisation. The make up of each ride was different.

We have a very good booking system and, whilst I am quite happy cycling on my own, I do check each ride. First I look at the route. I have cycled around the area for many years and therefore will know the profile of the proposed route. If I think it is one I could manage I then look at those going on the ride and the % of ebikes.

I then decide but I get no pleasure constantly trying to keep up so happily go my own way!!

[axel_knutt]

If an old person suddenly decides to take up new exercise they'll likely get fitter. If someone loses fitness due to illness then gets better there's scope for regaining some of their previous fitness. If someone who's been a lifelong exerciser sees their fitness slowly declining through old age I don't see there's any coming back from that, unless there had been a significant failing in their training method which offered an opportunity for improvement.

I can't see how an e-bike does anything other than draw people in to using progressively less effort, and becoming less and less fit as a consequence.

[Psamathe]

If an old person suddenly decides to take up new exercise they'll likely get fitter. If someone loses fitness due to illness then gets better there's scope for regaining some of their previous fitness. If someone who's been a lifelong exerciser sees their fitness slowly declining through old age I don't see there's any coming back from that, unless there had been a significant failing in their training method which offered an opportunity for improvement.
...

Possibly other longer term things that could have an impact on fitness. Bit of poor diet can then cascade on to reduced fitness/performance that can be recovered by diet improvements but it might take a couple of months. eg after last tour where I did longer than normal daily distances with no rest days and poor diet, indications are on return I was suffering some degree of anaemia (iron test showed things were bad). Took 1+ months to recover properly (next tour I think I'll be taking multi-vitamin pills with me just in case).

Whilst long covid is an extreme condition, I wonder if even an asymptomatic infection (Covid or other disease) can impact performance for longer term but you get through it.

etc.

nb I'm no medic so just making suggestions/questions?

Ian