Road pricing - pay per mile

[Stevek76]

The chart on that page is from their earlier 2015 work though.

Either way though my recollection is that the large hike in carbon costs happened after the start of COVID.

[Biospace]

I’d say that the plans lack equity as: large cars (which take more road space and cause more damage) are charged the same as small ones, and a congested mile of city travel costs the same as a clear mile of rural travel. Perhaps some of that inequality will be dealt with later.

Or they may simple increase with time?

£120 a year, it's not much, is it. I doubt that will stop someone driving a mile on the school run.

Those ferrying children around in large, battery powered SUVs are already subsidised by the taxpayer. They could multiply this figure by 10 and it would likely not affect car and SUV use much, especially in cities.

[Carlton green]

£120 a year, it's not much, is it. I doubt that will stop someone driving a mile on the school run.

Those ferrying children around in large, battery powered SUVs are already subsidised by the taxpayer. They could multiply this figure by 10 and it would likely not affect car and SUV use much, especially in cities.

If you can afford an SUV or BEV then you’re not going to be fussed by a mileage charge: they’re trivial compared to (valuable) time saved and (for the well off) just a cost to absorbed to keep the wheels of life turning. As in my earlier comments we need to decentralise services including education: if the customer can’t easily walk to it then it’s too far away.

[Biospace]

If you can afford an SUV or BEV then you’re not going to be fussed by a mileage charge: they’re trivial compared to (valuable) time saved and (for the well off) just a cost to absorbed to keep the wheels of life turning. As in my earlier comments we need to decentralise services including education: if the customer can’t easily walk to it then it’s too far away.

Services have become so centralised it would seem possible that more localisation is the only way forwards... people living in more isolated places will be shepherded into staying in their homes more and more, unless on foot or bicycle.

While this may appear a good thing to cyclists, there are already enough penalties for those who need to live in rural parts; many skilled tradesmen have moved closer towards population centres, resulting in many more road miles to reach the cash-rich who've bought in the country and have limited, narrow skillsets.

[rareposter]

£120 a year, it's not much, is it. I doubt that will stop someone driving a mile on the school run.

If it can act as the starting point for a proper road pricing system then it'll be a good thing. The main thing (other than getting the revenue lost from fuel duty) is to start making the customer (in this case the driver) think about the costs of their actions, same as they would if they paid for a plane or train ticket.

Starting with a simple 1p/mile and then having a phased introduction of demand-responsive pricing or pricing by vehicle type, journey distance and so on would be a decent way of introducing it, getting people used to the basic principle before bringing in tiers of pricing.

[Jdsk]

£120 a year, it's not much, is it. I doubt that will stop someone driving a mile on the school run.

If it can act as the starting point for a proper road pricing system then it'll be a good thing. The main thing (other than getting the revenue lost from fuel duty) is to start making the customer (in this case the driver) think about the costs of their actions, same as they would if they paid for a plane or train ticket.

Starting with a simple 1p/mile and then having a phased introduction of demand-responsive pricing or pricing by vehicle type, journey distance and so on would be a decent way of introducing it, getting people used to the basic principle before bringing in tiers of pricing.

I agree. Especially if we're thinking about what's feasible in the real world.

And the TBIGC proposal is to use the existing MoT process to collect data and the existing DVLA process to collect money.

Jonathan

[Jdsk]

...
Starting with a simple 1p/mile and then having a phased introduction of demand-responsive pricing or pricing by vehicle type, journey distance and so on would be a decent way of introducing it, getting people used to the basic principle before bringing in tiers of pricing.

And on the fiscal take: that phasing can be informed by the decreasing take from fuel taxes.

Jonathan

[axel_knutt]

[Carlton green]

PPMile.png

Interesting figures. The Tories want no change, whilst LibDem and Labour see a flat rate as inequitable and tax on fuel more representative of vehicle size and congestion (still use fuel but go nowhere).

[rareposter]

PPMile.png

Interesting figures. The Tories want no change, whilst LibDem and Labour see a flat rate as inequitable and tax on fuel more representative of vehicle size and congestion (still use fuel but go nowhere).

I don't think it's "Tories" or "Labour" as such, I think the question was asked of "the general public" but broken down by who they voted for. YouGov is a public polling platform.
Also, it's a good example of why you should never ask "the general public" anything more complicated than what they would like for dinner tonight.

[axel_knutt]

Motoring taxes aren't very popular, are they.
.

.
https://taxpolicy.org.uk/2024/10/26/the ... ignore-it/

[Carlton green]

Motoring taxes aren't very popular, are they.

My strong suspicion is that most folk regard motoring as a necessity rather than recreational or discretionary activity. In my working life I simply couldn’t have worked at some places if I hadn’t had use of a car and alternative employment (certainly not using my skill set) wasn’t available to me. A lot of other folk find the same too, as they juggle family life and careers.

[Nearholmer]

Yes, from a practical perspective taxes on private motoring are, for many, taxes on the ability to travel, and I don’t expect that there’d be much enthusiasm for taxing bus or train fares either. Taxing cycling might be popular though, because there is a mad meme about it, and because it’s like taxing betting: a tax on something I don’t do, so it won’t cost me.

[Carlton green]

Yes, from a practical perspective taxes on private motoring are, for many, taxes on the ability to travel, and I don’t expect that there’d be much enthusiasm for taxing bus or train fares either. Taxing cycling might be popular though, because there is a mad meme about it, and because it’s like taxing betting: a tax on something I don’t do, so it won’t cost me.

I suspect that there is a big proportion of the population that either do, have or would like to cycle; those that don’t like cyclists seem to be a small minority and some people (a very small percentage) on bikes ride so badly as to give the rest of us a bad name.

The whole chart and differences between labour and conservative leaning voters seem to reflect the ‘tax what I don’t do’ theme, I suppose that that’s human nature though.

[Biospace]

I suspect that there is a big proportion of the population that either do, have or would like to cycle; those that don’t like cyclists seem to be a small minority and some people (a very small percentage) on bikes ride so badly as to give the rest of us a bad name.

The whole chart and differences between labour and conservative leaning voters seem to reflect the ‘tax what I don’t do’ theme, I suppose that that’s human nature though.

I know of plenty who would cycle to work provided it's not pouring with rain, but they judge the roads as far too unpleasant, especially at rush hours. Providing sections of busier roads which appear to cater well for cyclists doesn't work if that means there are others which don't.

We should, as usual, look to Holland and start providing routes for our low carbon, low impact transport. It's one of those rare situations which comes close to a "win-win" description as our healthcare systems would also benefit.