Cycling UK Forum

biker38109 wrote: ↑14 Oct 2024, 7:54pm I would say I 'bonked' the other day not necessarily just because I climbed the 25%er but rather that I had no energy after.

How long and hard had you been riding at this point? How much you need to eat depends on how hard you are working (relative to your fitness) and for how long. It is certainly possible to ride 3 or 4 hours without needing to eat. You’ll often see these durations and longer ridden without eating by those on audax events. With no reduction in pace or increase in RPE for same pace. But they’ve built up to it and have a far better fat burning ability than your average cyclist.

By all day I take it you mean a ride that starts not long after breakfast and continue till tea time or later?

Lots of good advice above. I am fairly old school with water in the bottles and a cafe stop every 30 miles or so. I also have a couple of energy bars in case the cafe is shut or I need additional food. I do have something pasta rich the night before and a huge bowl of muesli style cereal before setting off.

According to the Mayo clinic carbs are pretty useful if you need energy:
Fuel source: Carbohydrates are the body's main source of energy, providing fuel for activities like breathing, thinking, and exercise.
Brain and nervous system: Carbohydrates are the preferred energy source for these systems.
Muscle activity: Carbohydrates fuel muscle activity.
Organ function: Carbohydrates help keep other organs working properly.

PH wrote: ↑15 Oct 2024, 1:42pm

mattheus wrote: ↑15 Oct 2024, 10:41am Stay off the sugar.
Stay off carbs if you have the willpower.
IDEALLY aim to fuel on proper food.

Isn't there some contradiction there? Most proper food is going to contain a large proportion of carbs, certainly a pork pie! There's good reason beans on toast has been a cyclists favorite for generations.

Oh absolutely! I dont' claim to eat the perfect diet on my rides I happen to really like pork pies and find them really easy to carry and eat on the move.

Beans-on-toast are good because they're high in protein and complex carbs, plus lots of good nutrients not found in gels AND MOST IMPORTANTLY taste nice and are sold in many cafes at a sensible price!!

gbnz wrote: ↑15 Oct 2024, 8:00am In respect to energy ? In idyllic conditions, one is healthy, fit, eats a low GI diet (Nb. High in lentils/beans/fruit/veg/protein)

That sounds like me to T already. I am already vegan and live on brown rice and legumes and pulses and nuts. So just a case of taking it with me rather than leaving at home. I have read many posts about 'going to the cafe and eating cake' and/or the pub which makes me cringe a little. I never eat sweet food, or intake caffeine. I know both are 'british institutions' so I see why the are popular but not my thing. My mum however loves all that as well as most of that side of the family so see how ingrained it is in the culture.

In terms of food choices are there any advantages to junky carbs often advocated or is my existing diet always going to be better? I would imagine the junky stuff give a short fast rush but also probably a crash so better I just stick to my usual diet but of course take it with me to eat while riding.

What I would do is eat as usual before, ride close to or bonk then get home and gorge. That food is not the best for carrying though. Wet and sloppy most of it but possible I am sure. Any suggestions for good food containers for that kind of wet food? When I would volunteer work I would usually just pack some nuts instead of faffing with 'real' food but having maximum energy was not of paramount importance there.

mattheus wrote: ↑15 Oct 2024, 10:41am Stay off carbs if you have the willpower.

Huh? I thought carbs are the best. You mean just bad carbs because stuff like brown rice is par excellence no? Protein is not appropriate for riding is it as that takes longer to break down for energy? I would imagine low gi high carb, as commenter quoted above suggests, would be the way to go.

ed.lazda wrote: ↑15 Oct 2024, 12:40pm Don't stay off the carbs -- that advice is simply wrong.

Bonking happens when you run out of carbohydrate to fuel working muscles. You have a limited supply of carbohydrate and it needs to be replenished during a long ride.

Indeed, I just replied questioning that advice before I saw your rebuke of it.

Jdsk wrote: ↑15 Oct 2024, 12:52pm
And I'd include that thinking about what to do if you can't ride home for any reason.

Jonathan

Indeed, that becomes all the more important the farther from home you ride out to.

gbnz wrote: ↑15 Oct 2024, 8:00am wearing a decent pair of shoes/boots to walk in, if there's a chance the bicycle may not make it - much easier to walk 20 miles home overnight in decent boots

This is something I have been thinking about lately. Are there waterproof, fairly sturdy but not hindering to your riding, cycling shoes which can double up for off-road duty? So far I had been riding only in old trainers and a couple of times I end up off road and lost and have to plant down in mud due to unanticipated poor terrain that I couldn't ride through.

I currently only have very light cloth type trainers or super heavy duty walking boots.

Maybe cyclocross shoes but I can imagine if the shoes carry the name cyclocross then they will come with a premium price tag of probably £100+. Similar to the case of cycling glasses where people suggested workwear ones instead for a fraction of the price which I since have purchased.

Blondie wrote: ↑15 Oct 2024, 2:08pm

biker38109 wrote: ↑14 Oct 2024, 7:54pm I would say I 'bonked' the other day not necessarily just because I climbed the 25%er but rather that I had no energy after.

How long and hard had you been riding at this point? How much you need to eat depends on how hard you are working (relative to your fitness) and for how long. It is certainly possible to ride 3 or 4 hours without needing to eat. You’ll often see these durations and longer ridden without eating by those on audax events. With no reduction in pace or increase in RPE for same pace. But they’ve built up to it and have a far better fat burning ability than your average cyclist.

By all day I take it you mean a ride that starts not long after breakfast and continue till tea time or later?

I had ridden about an hour and as I mentioned in the other thread on this sub where I discussed in more detail I had been riding hard to rush to what I felt was the 'real' riding of my intended destination and probably wasted energy through over exertion.

Just looking up audax. Why don't they eat? Is it an enforced rule to make it harder? Similar to how simon warren suggests having '100 miles in the legs' before beginning hard knot pass, just because?

Yes I am envisioning sun up to sun set as an all dayer.

PH wrote: ↑15 Oct 2024, 10:02am Get some decent lights so daylight isn't such a hard barrier.

Perhaps but I would see having them as a fallback only if I unintentionally went over as riding in the dark increases risk on roads doesn't it so would avoid it given the choice.

biker38109 wrote: ↑15 Oct 2024, 2:59pm riding in the dark increases risk on roads doesn't it so would avoid it given the choice.

I'm not sure there's any evidence for that, one way or the other, but it isn't my experience.

biker38109 wrote: ↑15 Oct 2024, 2:57pmreduction in pace

Just looking up audax. Why don't they eat? Is it an enforced rule to make it harder?

Nope, as should have been clear, it doesn’t make it harder for them. There is just no need to eat over that duration if you are not riding hard. This is of course if you’ve build your endurance engine well. If your engine is not so well built or you are working hard relative to your fitness, then you’ll need to eat.

Blondie wrote: ↑15 Oct 2024, 3:43pm

biker38109 wrote: ↑15 Oct 2024, 2:57pmreduction in pace

Just looking up audax. Why don't they eat? Is it an enforced rule to make it harder?

Nope, as should have been clear, it doesn’t make it harder for them. There is just no need to eat over that duration if you are not riding hard. This is of course if you’ve build your endurance engine well. If your engine is not so well built or you are working hard relative to your fitness, then you’ll need to eat.

So people who eat are wimps?

biker38109 wrote: ↑15 Oct 2024, 2:57pm Just looking up audax. Why don't they eat? Is it an enforced rule to make it harder? Similar to how simon warren suggests having '100 miles in the legs' before beginning hard knot pass, just because?

They DO eat. It's not a "rule" in any way. It's just that, once you reach a certain level of training / acclimatisation / endurance etc, it's really not necessary to be stuffing yourself the whole time or stopping at cafes every 30 miles. Audax is a particular kind of exercise in pacing yourself, keeping going. At the lower levels (100, 200km etc), it's not an issue but at the more extreme events like the 600 or 1000km events, it requires one hell of a mindset to push yourself through, minimise the stopping and faffing and most people will a lot of their eating and drinking on the move.

biker38109 wrote: ↑15 Oct 2024, 4:17pm So people who eat are wimps?

Of course not! Stop thinking about this in terms of how "hardcore" or otherwise people are, you did the same with gearing. Everyone needs to eat. If you're doing more exercise, you need to eat more food and more often. Proper food that provides actual usable energy, not just a pack of crisps that you might have as a snack while watching TV or working at a desk.

Most people can do an hour of steady cycling without any real issue. However, if you're out all day or you're doing strenuous cycling, you'll need some form of replenishment every hour or so - whether that might be carrying a cereal bar or flapjack or similarly "dense" food or stopping at a cafe for a bacon sarnie or a mix of those is up to you.

I did a 300km a few weeks ago and used a mixture of cereal bars / flapjack / energy gels / one banana that I carried and then 2 cafe stops. Obviously had a decent breakfast before I started and then a proper evening meal. Was out for a total of just over 12hrs but only about 10.5hrs riding time. But on a "normal" (for me) day ride of maybe 5hrs, I'd usually only carry one bar and then just rely on a cafe stop somewhere around the halfway point. I'm rarely smashing it or pushing myself too hard so I don't need a lot, I can ride 100km on a couple of bottles of water and one bar if I have to.

biker38109 wrote: ↑15 Oct 2024, 4:17pm

Blondie wrote: ↑15 Oct 2024, 3:43pm

biker38109 wrote: ↑15 Oct 2024, 2:57pmreduction in pace

Just looking up audax. Why don't they eat? Is it an enforced rule to make it harder?

Nope, as should have been clear, it doesn’t make it harder for them. There is just no need to eat over that duration if you are not riding hard. This is of course if you’ve build your endurance engine well. If your engine is not so well built or you are working hard relative to your fitness, then you’ll need to eat.

So people who eat are wimps?

Audax are just long organised bike rides, the variety of what people eat will be as varied as it is on any other long bike ride. There's no ethos of starving yourself!
I don't each that much on the bike, then eat well at the cafe/s, that's what suits me, you have to find out what suits you.

geocycle wrote: ↑15 Oct 2024, 2:12pm Lots of good advice above. I am fairly old school with water in the bottles and a cafe stop every 30 miles or so.

Oh good. I sometimes think that I am the only one. I have no idea what hydration and fuelling are, but I do tend to drink some water, and stop at cafes on Audax events. I can ride for several hours on a few sips of water, and am quite happy doing that, then I think about finding a cafe.

But then, when I started time trialling, no-one carried even a bottle on a 10- or 25-mile event, and maybe not on a 50.