Cycling UK Forum

Here’s one for you.

I live in the Netherlands and do the school run by bicycle, a Gazelle HeavyDutyNL with Yepp child seat:



It has a 3-speed Nexus IGH, Shimano roller brakes front and rear, and Shimano dynamo … and that’s just the hubs. But it’s the hubs that have fascinated me.

Displaces 30.4 kg as shown before passengers, luggage, and any gulls hitching a ride.

I also have a lightly built up Spa Audax on furlough right now, waiting for a future when I get my weekends back.

The facts regrettably call for a third bicycle. What I need is a solo runabout for errands, pleasure, and unserious exercise. Something more gazelle than the Gazelle.

The catch is that it must live on the street. Public bike rack. Close to the sea.

My current unsure thinking:

• fixed frame along the lines of Spa’s Audax Mono
• drop bars
• 2- or 3-speed IGH. I’ve come to admire the Nexus 3, and I have fond memories of my mother’s old Fichtel & Sachs Torpedo Duomatic with kick-back shifting and coaster brake. The 2-speed would eliminate one or two cables. Not sure what shifter options I have for a 3-speed on drop bars anyway (I see there is a bar-end shifter and STI-type shifter for Shimano 8-speed IGHs)
• dynamo hub
• dynamo lamps front and rear
• maybe a drum brake at the front, which would leave me with one hub option as far as I can see: the Sturmey-Archer X-FDD
• given that lack of choice, maybe a hydraulic disc instead
• or a rim brake. I have a loose BR-R650 in my parts box
• brake levers … absolutely no idea
• full chain case if feasible
• flat pedals with reflectors. Suggestions?
• some sort of stand. Suggestions?
• some sort of lock or two
• maybe no mudguards, since I have the Gazelle for bad days (albeit with mudguards more stylish than sensible). Or maybe that’s crazy
• flimsy front rack with wire basket.

Well, that’s already too much to start with. What do you say?

Both Brucey and Lucky Luke have built similar bikes to the one you have described... call out to them (nicely) and ask them for info and photos.l

Similar stuff, here viewtopic.php?t=70632&start=105&sid=58d ... 19f84c3175

30 kg .....are you serious?
For a solo without an electric motor?

In the sixties I lived and worked in London, which for the most part isn't very hilly, but they do salt the roads in winter, and my "work/hack" bike had to live outside.
My solution was the same as almost every other club cyclist at the time; single fixed gear (I prefer a gear on the low side, 64" for me) front brake, plastic mudguards, and battery lights. Battery lights (Never Ready!) were truly awful back then, but so were dynamos. These days I would try to find out how salt-resistant modern dynamo hubs and LED lights are, but the benefit of battery lights is they are easy to replace. Maybe they won't get vandalised/stolen as often in Holland.
A bike like that is cheap to buy and run, and is fun to ride; at least it is if you get on with fixed.....and much more fun than a 30 Kg tank.

No stand....they are an abomination......and to get the best out of fixed you will want cleats, or at least toeclips

So you've moved out of Paris?

No specific recommendations other than if it's got to live on the street, used is surely the way to go, and there are fixed multi-gear hubs to combine the best, or maybe worst, of both. SA make one called S3X (somewhat cheesy name) but I've no personal experience. Seeing as Amsterdam is flat and you already have a spare rim brake, that's got to be the way to go.

I ran an SA 3 speed fixed for a while.
I didn’t think much of it, for me the “gears” were just enough to spoil the “fixed” experience but not enough to be really useful. My recollection is they were 10% intervals, much less than a 3 speed freewheel hub….?

cycle tramp wrote: ↑21 Oct 2024, 12:25pm Similar stuff, here viewtopic.php?t=70632&start=105&sid=58d ... 19f84c3175

Oh yes! The supercommuter. I’ll have a good look at that thread before I do anything. Though my goals here are slightly different I think.

531colin wrote: ↑21 Oct 2024, 12:34pm 30 kg .....are you serious?
For a solo without an electric motor?

It’s aluminium, but the child seat alone is 3.6 kg, and there’s a chain lock in the crate at the front.

Every man with a child seat here rides a low-step (“women’s”) frame like this one so they can mount and dismount without the child taking a boot to the head, but these frames weigh even more than high-step (“men’s”) ones.

The tyres are 50 mm wide. Etc.

Somehow it adds up to nearly 70 lb.

The irony is that I’ve never done so much stopping and starting as I do in Dutch cycling infrastructure. So it’s heavy work for sure, especially into the omnidirectional headwind. Oh, you sit bolt upright on these machines, like riding a horse. It’s something else. My right knee screamed for two weeks then completely got used to it. Front wheel is waaay out there. The scale is enormous: I’m looking over some SUVs. Steering feels wildly different, and that’s if you don’t ride off with the steering lock on (see serrated collar at top of head tube). The steering lock is for loading a child on the beefy centre stand.

It does all work well as a car replacement though. My main complaint is the front mudguard does not keep my feet dry enough. Well, what would the Dutch know about rain …

531colin wrote: ↑21 Oct 2024, 12:34pm In the sixties I lived and worked in London, which for the most part isn't very hilly, but they do salt the roads in winter, and my "work/hack" bike had to live outside.
My solution was the same as almost every other club cyclist at the time; single fixed gear (I prefer a gear on the low side, 64" for me) front brake, plastic mudguards, and battery lights. Battery lights (Never Ready!) were truly awful back then, but so were dynamos. These days I would try to find out how salt-resistant modern dynamo hubs and LED lights are, but the benefit of battery lights is they are easy to replace. Maybe they won't get vandalised/stolen as often in Holland.
A bike like that is cheap to buy and run, and is fun to ride; at least it is if you get on with fixed.....and much more fun than a 30 Kg tank.

No stand....they are an abomination......and to get the best out of fixed you will want cleats, or at least toeclips

That sounds like a time-tested plan. I’m curious about fixed but not sure I could pull it off in NL. I’ve never had a fixed-gear.

I was thinking that if the Dutch can get away with hub gears and internal brakes on bicycles that live outdoors – and they’re no better at maintenance here than anywhere else – maybe I could too but in a lighter package.

My other consideration is all the starting and stopping and wind. It’s brutal. So although it’s flat, I have certainly been glad of my three gears. But I’m still a fairly young man. If not fixed now, when? Hmm.

Hi.Got any recycling places? Don,t overthink this..it could be stolen.Pick up any half decent bike ,adapt to it or at least adapt to suit you,ride it.Do you have second hand places in Holland?

Bmblbzzz wrote: ↑21 Oct 2024, 12:57pm So you've moved out of Paris?

Afraid so. Couple of years ago already. It was mostly for my wife’s career.

I loved Paris, not the tourist Paris but the living Paris. But it is a moveable feast, as Hemingway said. I have taken something of it with me to NL and will always keep that. And maybe we’ll even move back one day. Our child is going to a French school here.

Bmblbzzz wrote: ↑21 Oct 2024, 12:57pm No specific recommendations other than if it's got to live on the street, used is surely the way to go, and there are fixed multi-gear hubs to combine the best, or maybe worst, of both. SA make one called S3X (somewhat cheesy name) but I've no personal experience. Seeing as Amsterdam is flat and you already have a spare rim brake, that's got to be the way to go.

Not Amsterdam but The Hague. Still flat.

Using parts I already have makes sense but is less fun. A used frame is a good idea, but I need to nail down my build before I shop for a compatible frame … I think anyway.

cyclop wrote: ↑21 Oct 2024, 4:38pm Hi.Got any recycling places? Don,t overthink this..it could be stolen.Pick up any half decent bike ,adapt to it or at least adapt to suit you,ride it.Do you have second hand places in Holland?

There are places to buy cheap bicycles, certainly.

Still, the goal here is a fun, quick ride.

The Gazelle above already serves as workable transport. It too lives on the street, happily so far although it no longer quite looks like it did for that photograph. My neighbour warned me everything would be stolen – she took a can of purple spray paint to her brand new bicycle to disfigure it – but there are many expensive utility bicycles on my street’s bike racks and mine is better locked than most of them.

I fix Dutch bikes sometimes.Yes, I can see how it can be this heavy.

I can't give advice on the main problem, but here are a couple of tips:

• Keep your feet drier on the Gazelle in the picture by fitting a long mudflap to the front guard. SKS make one, or you can make your own from a stiff rubbery material such as damp-proof-course tape (wider than a brick). It has been discussed here before.

• A Hebie Chainglider could be a substitute for a chaincase. It's a plastic thing that fits around the chainring and chain.

• Instead of drop bars had you considered some other shape of bars to achieve what you want? Butterfly bars are now out of fashion. You can add extensions in various shapes to give a higher grip on lower flat bars.

Samuel D wrote: ↑21 Oct 2024, 11:05am The facts regrettably call for a third bicycle. What I need is a solo runabout for errands, pleasure, and unserious exercise. Something more gazelle than the Gazelle.

The catch is that it must live on the street. Public bike rack. Close to the sea.

My current unsure thinking:

• fixed frame along the lines of Spa’s Audax Mono
• drop bars
• dynamo hub
• dynamo lamps front and rear
• maybe a drum brake at the front, which would leave me with one hub option as far as I can see: the Sturmey-Archer X-FDD
• given that lack of choice, maybe a hydraulic disc instead
• or a rim brake. I have a loose BR-R650 in my parts box
• brake levers … absolutely no idea
• full chain case if feasible
• flat pedals with reflectors. Suggestions?
• some sort of stand. Suggestions?
• some sort of lock or two
• maybe no mudguards.
• flimsy front rack with wire basket.

Well, that’s already too much to start with. What do you say?

My thoughts are
i) Mudguards are a must, full one's with a decent mudflap front & rear - reduces the need for a full chain case. Perhaps a hockey stick style chain guard, and front mudflap would be an easier but fairly effective compromise.
ii) If you're front forks are going to be carbon, I would stay away from drum brakes.
iii) I ran a 26" wheeled expedition frame, with a rim brake in the front and a 3 speed sturmey archer hub and 90mm rear. The 90mm rear worked straight out of the box and became more powerful as it wore in. Ran the bike like it for 3 years.
iv) wald front basket, very useful
V) probably a nurses lock for the rear wheel.
Vii) painting the words 'i like to be ridden fast and hard' along the top tube might mean you only need one bike lock instead of two

Somewhere on the forum is a photo of Brucey's bike with a front dynamo hub, 3 speed rear hub, cantilever rim brakes, with a set of dropped handlebars..

plancashire wrote: ↑21 Oct 2024, 4:58pm

• A Hebie Chainglider could be a substitute for a chaincase. It's a plastic thing that fits around the chainring and chain.

Intriguing, thanks.

plancashire wrote: ↑21 Oct 2024, 4:58pm

• Instead of drop bars had you considered some other shape of bars to achieve what you want?

I’ve tried a few other bar shapes and they’ve only confirmed I prefer classic drops, positioned higher than a lot of roadies would like so that I can use the hooks and drops often. I like the variations in hand position, the aero potential, the braking power and control on descents, the close and high option (tops) for tiddling along. Very versatile for a guy like me whose torso angle varies a great deal depending on effort level.

So I think I’ll try to figure out brake levers and shifters (if not single speed) before giving up on the drop bar idea.

Always easier to keep brake levers and gear shifters separate, unless of course you happen to want what Shimano (etc) have decided you SHOULD have.