"Cycling will be more dangerous due to council clampdowns, say campaigners"

[Bmblbzzz]

Anyway, there's a relevant blog article here, from a bike mechanic and recreational rider who hates e-bikes but is quite positive about them, in contexts, here: https://citizenrider.blogspot.com/2024/ ... muffy.html

A smokeless moped is a fantastic transportation tool for someone whose job is already tiring enough, who gets paid as little as society can get away with to do things society definitely wants done. The ones with a throttle option eliminate pedaling entirely. They're low-powered electric motorcycles, neatly protected from the need for licensing, registration, and insurance by the mere presence of a bicycle crankset and a pair of pedals.

The e-bikes I see regularly used for practical journeys around here all have onboard lighting systems. They are configured for transportation. Hunting and fishing stores sell versions configured for those activities. You pay more than $1,000 for a solid transportation vehicle, but it has a lot of what you need to have your best chance of survival in the mosh pit that is the American highway system.

The more an e-bike tries to look and act like an analog bike, the less useful it is in the broader moped category.

He's writing in an American context, where I think the speed and power limits are higher (and the prices seem to be lower), but the same principles apply worldwide.

[Bmblbzzz]

So, at risk of repeating myself …… how else?

(I don’t expect an answer, because TBH I’m not at all sure one exists!)

Of course there's no total answer. We've had pretty good regulatory systems around motor vehicles for a hundred years or so and people still do dangerous things with them, and many of them are illegal in various ways (eg no insurance, false registration, etc). And that's even with things like ANPR. Come to that, people can walk dangerously...

But we could start by removing some anomalies. For instance, legalize all e-scooters within the speed and power limits. The current situation where it's legal to ride something you've hired but not something you own, is nonsensical. We could then extend the same principle to all the small e-things: bikes, skateboards, monowheel things, what have you. Is it small and slow? Is it not going to catch fire? Then it's okay, whether it has pedals or no.

Or we could take the opposite attitude and ban them all. Including the cars.

[PH]

Aye, and it’s made very clear to us that if we’re claiming business miles on our personal vehicles we need to have appropriate insurance (ie business as well as social/domestic/pleasure/commuting). My suspicion is that the gig economy companies say this too, then don’t bother to check, and if someone is done for riding an illegal and potentially unsafe e-motorbike then they’ll shrug and go “We have removed this person’s account” knowing someone else will come along.

Bike riders have insurance provided by the platform. I'm not sure if an illegal bike invalidates that, there are frequent reminders via the app to ride legally.
Here's the Deliveroo offer, but the others I've dealt with all offer something similar:
https://riders.deliveroo.co.uk/en/suppo ... -insurance

For motorised transport, you can supply your own Hire and Reward insurance, which you have to upload regularly, or you can PAYG per delivery/day/week and it's taken off your payment.

[Pebble]

If I were king I would confine any wheeled transport to the road, bikes of any description do not belong where pedestrians are. And of course I would simultaneously have a massive crack down on traffic laws with cars crushed and lifetime bans being dished out on a regular basis.

But being more realistic - I wish they would have a massive crackdown on these electric motorbikes semi disguised as eBikes. It is becoming an increasing problem in Edinburgh and I'm sick of them

[PH]

But we could start by removing some anomalies. For instance, legalize all e-scooters within the speed and power limits. The current situation where it's legal to ride something you've hired but not something you own, is nonsensical. We could then extend the same principle to all the small e-things: bikes, skateboards, monowheel things, what have you. Is it small and slow? Is it not going to catch fire? Then it's okay, whether it has pedals or no.

I think eventually there will have to be one set of regulation for all small powered personal transport. It makes no sense to differentiate if someone is travelling at an appropriate speed and I really don't care if they're standing or sitting, pedalling or not.

[Bmblbzzz]

But we could start by removing some anomalies. For instance, legalize all e-scooters within the speed and power limits. The current situation where it's legal to ride something you've hired but not something you own, is nonsensical. We could then extend the same principle to all the small e-things: bikes, skateboards, monowheel things, what have you. Is it small and slow? Is it not going to catch fire? Then it's okay, whether it has pedals or no.

I think eventually there will have to be one set of regulation for all small powered personal transport. It makes no sense to differentiate if someone is travelling at an appropriate speed and I really don't care if they're standing or sitting, pedalling or not.

On this we are in agreement.

[rareposter]

I think eventually there will have to be one set of regulation for all small powered personal transport. It makes no sense to differentiate if someone is travelling at an appropriate speed and I really don't care if they're standing or sitting, pedalling or not.

The eventual idea behind the e-scooter trial scheme (where you can hire one legally) was to assess risks, usage etc and then introduce the relevant law(s) permitting all e-scooters provided they were within a certain power / speed (much like EAPC).

However, this was all done under the previous Government who were too busy wrecking the country to bother with minor things like that so the new laws just got kicked down the road again and again as they extended the trial schemes. It should come in eventually, if only because the current scheme is unworkable. Everyone is pretending it's all fine, there's no problem but - as with illegal e-motorbikes - they're now commonplace, there's general lack of clarity and understanding around it all especially since they can be sold legally and there's limited resources to enforce anything.

[ratherbeintobago]

Good Peter Walker piece from the Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ingham-ban

[Jdsk]

I think eventually there will have to be one set of regulation for all small powered personal transport. It makes no sense to differentiate if someone is travelling at an appropriate speed and I really don't care if they're standing or sitting, pedalling or not.

The eventual idea behind the e-scooter trial scheme (where you can hire one legally) was to assess risks, usage etc and then introduce the relevant law(s) permitting all e-scooters provided they were within a certain power / speed (much like EAPC).

However, this was all done under the previous Government who were too busy wrecking the country to bother with minor things like that so the new laws just got kicked down the road again and again as they extended the trial schemes. It should come in eventually, if only because the current scheme is unworkable. Everyone is pretending it's all fine, there's no problem but - as with illegal e-motorbikes - they're now commonplace, there's general lack of clarity and understanding around it all especially since they can be sold legally and there's limited resources to enforce anything.

i think that's right about consistency across micromobility devices.

And about what happened at national level: and you can see that by looking at the time course of relevant articles on the GOV.UK site.

I have no idea what will happen next. It may be included in the National Transport Strategy that's due next year.

Jonathan

[toontra]

Good Peter Walker piece from the Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ingham-ban

More or less a re-iteration of this thread. No ideas for how to deal with it though - at least some of us have made practical suggestions.

[Jdsk]

Good Peter Walker piece from the Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ingham-ban

Thanks for that.

Quite a lot of overlap with the discussion in this thread. (Does he follow us?)

Good discussion on health, but could have extended that to the fast food itself.

And light on what should be done to improve things, I think deliberately.

Recommended.

Jonathan

Edited: Crossed with above. SNAP!

[Pendodave]

A very slight tangent...
I've recently visited Japan. I was very struck by how differently they approach cycling. In the big cities, people just pootle around on the pavements. Almost no-one cycles on the road. This article summarises it quite well :
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... ng-culture
Note the date, but that was also my much more recent experience.

[cycle tramp]

If I were king I would confine any wheeled transport to the road, bikes of any description do not belong where pedestrians are. And of course I would simultaneously have a massive crack down on traffic laws with cars crushed and lifetime bans being dished out on a regular basis.

I'm tending to agree with Pebble. Both Bridgwater and Taunton have pedestrian zones, and i don't cycle through them. I think the overall time lost is about 4 minutes for Bridgwater (it's quite short) and seven or eight minutes for Taunton. It's not the biggest 'ask' in the world to let those with young families or the infirm to wander from shop to shop without thinking too much about any passing traffic. Personally I think any vibrant pedestrian zone gives a sense to the area.

Equally, in a similar way to yellow lines and clear ears, pedestrian zines should open to cycle traffic, perhaps from 8 pm to 8 am, when there's less people around.

I think a tannoy system reminding people not to drop litter, cycle or whatever else may be a beneficial thing...

[toontra]

Just seen an ad on Discovery+ showing a slightly haggard-looking woman virtually passed out in an armchair who only cheers up when she gets an Uber delivery of wine. That's what we've come to - getting alcohol delivered. I'm sure alcoholics are grateful.

It's always bemused me who is ordering all this food (and now wine). I seem to survive by doing a couple of supermarket shops a week and cooking stuff myself.

[PH]

That's what we've come to - getting alcohol delivered. I'm sure alcoholics are grateful.

The rider has to tick the app to say the customer appears sober, before handing it over!
A lot of it is absurd, but has become accepted as the new norm, anyone who believes the end of the World prophesies, well it's at the level of decadence that leads to the fall of man. I carried a takeaway across the street once from a restaurant to some student flats, literally across the street. Students are the worst (Or best from a riders POV) they get a Deliveroo subscription, pay monthly rather than per order, and share it. I'll frequently get paid more than the order cost, £7.20 for two Greggs sausage rolls was I think my record. The platforms were branching out from takeaway food before the pandemic, but that accelerated it. All the supermarkets and some convenience stores, several off-licences, Boots, Apple... pretty much anything you can think of will be available on one of the platforms. Issue for a rider is you can arrive at a collection point to find the order is bigger than you'd want to carry, made worse by some supermarkets offering cheaper deliveries for larger orders.