Slow puncture which doesn't show under water

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Brucey
Posts: 46964
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Slow puncture which doesn't show under water

Post by Brucey »

mattheus wrote: 7 Jan 2025, 6:24pm....It wasn't easily visible even in the bath, but the evidence says it's letting enough air out to deflate inside 24h. With the tube out of the bath and dry it was vv near impossible to see the hole. Absolutely no way I could hear it.....
for the very slowest punctures hold the tube submerged (for which you will need weights/mesh) in soapy water. By the time you have made/drunk a cup of tea, the puncture will usually have made itself known by leaving a tell-tale trail of bubbles behind.

There is (of course) a type of puncture which can defy any attempts made to locate it at low pressures. The reason for this is very simple; at low pressures there is no puncture, no leakage of air to be seen. How does this happen? Well, usually a patch lifts, lets the tyre down, then reseals itself. When the puncture has nearly driven you barmy, or at first, you can resort to the 'puddle test'. In this, the fully inflated tyre is partially submerged (eg. in a puddle), and because the pressure is so high, bubbles will come out. Unfortunately the tyre's outer cover can be very nearly airtight too, meaning that where the bubbles come out is only an approximate indication of the puncture's true location, but at least this simple test may stave off puncture-induced barminess.
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Steve
Posts: 423
Joined: 2 Apr 2007, 1:42pm

Re: Slow puncture which doesn't show under water

Post by Steve »

+ 1 for checking the valve core is properly tight (with a core removal tool/pliers/adjustable spanner), then seeing if the tube still loses pressure.
AndyK
Posts: 1661
Joined: 17 Aug 2007, 2:08pm
Location: Mid Hampshire

Re: Slow puncture which doesn't show under water

Post by AndyK »

There's always the Rema Tip Top Leakfinder: a small disc filled with tiny polystyrene balls. You run it over the tube and the little balls dance when it passes over the leak. I've seen it in use and it's surprisingly effective at finding tiny, slow leaks - probably as good as the bucket of water method but less messy, and arguably easier than the lips/listen techniques when you're standing next to a busy road on a breezy day.
leakfinder.png
It's always been hard-to-find in the UK: for some reason the UK distributor doesn't import it, and since Brexit you can't buy it from the likes of Rosebikes or HollandBikeShop. A friend was so taken with it that he brought back a bagful from one of his regular trips to the Netherlands and distributed them to his cycling friends. Of course I promptly lost mine.

However I notice that Rema now include one as part of their TT09 e-bike* puncture repair kit, which you can buy from UK sources (the RAC shop, oddly enough). The image gives some idea of its tiny size:
tt09.png
* Yes, it's just like any other puncture repair kit but it says "e-bike" on it. <sigh>
mattheus
Posts: 6178
Joined: 29 Dec 2008, 12:57pm
Location: Western Europe

Re: Slow puncture which doesn't show under water

Post by mattheus »

AndyK wrote: 8 Jan 2025, 12:17pm There's always the Rema Tip Top Leakfinder: a small disc filled with tiny polystyrene balls.
Good lord - one really can learn something new every day.
Or as the kids say:
"I was today years old when I first heard about the Leakfinder ... "
AndyK
Posts: 1661
Joined: 17 Aug 2007, 2:08pm
Location: Mid Hampshire

Re: Slow puncture which doesn't show under water

Post by AndyK »

mattheus wrote: 8 Jan 2025, 1:25pm
AndyK wrote: 8 Jan 2025, 12:17pm There's always the Rema Tip Top Leakfinder: a small disc filled with tiny polystyrene balls.
Good lord - one really can learn something new every day.
Or as the kids say:
"I was today years old when I first heard about the Leakfinder ... "
I believe it's been around for many decades, but those pesky Europeans have tried to keep it to themselves, laughing at us as we mess around with buckets of water and licking our inner tubes.
A British entrepreneur "invented" a near-identical device in 2016 and tried to get a patent for it, but seems to have withdrawn the application.
LittleGreyCat
Posts: 1350
Joined: 7 Aug 2013, 8:31pm

Re: Slow puncture which doesn't show under water

Post by LittleGreyCat »

Barrowman wrote: 8 Jan 2025, 8:11am Might be a grandmother/egg situation...

Did you remove the thorn after the initial puncture? (A few of my CUK colleagues have fallen for this, including me once)

If it's a pin prick as has already been suggested ,you will have to approximate the pressure when it's inside the tyre ( which will render it surprisingly large when not constrained by the tyre) as has already been suggested.
To expand on my original post, it is an unused (but old) tyre so not likely to have a thorn in.
It is also an unused (but old) inner tube.
I asked in another thread about the shelf life of inner tubes.

I want to diagnose where the leak is so I can decide if it is a fault with the tube, or damage as a result of my lack of recent practice in fitting new inner tubes.

Thankfully my brand new inner tube has been fitted (after more of a struggle than I expected) and so far has stayed pumped up.

I shall try pumping it up harder and see what that reveals.
2_i
Posts: 296
Joined: 25 Feb 2020, 3:12am

Re: Slow puncture which doesn't show under water

Post by 2_i »

AndyK wrote: 8 Jan 2025, 12:17pm There's always the Rema Tip Top Leakfinder: a small disc filled with tiny polystyrene balls. You run it over the tube and the little balls dance when it passes over the leak.
It can be made to work with leaks that can be found in any other way, such as moving the inflated tube by your face or submerging it in water. However, it is ineffective with slow leaks that can still be found in water. The styrofoam balls can get electrostatically charged and stick to the top of the Finder, and then the device becomes ineffective even with significant leaks. Yes, you can get the charge off, but this involves another layer of bother beyond finding the leak. Unsurprisingly, the device is hard to find - it is just not a significant tool.
Brucey
Posts: 46964
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Slow puncture which doesn't show under water

Post by Brucey »

LittleGreyCat wrote: 8 Jan 2025, 9:30pm.....It is also an unused (but old) inner tube.....
most tubes are checked for leaks before they leave the factory. This certainly reduces, but not completely eliminates the incidence of duff new tubes. Pay special attention to any seams or joins that might be evident, but IME it is much more likely that the leak is in the valve stem eg where it joins or within the core itself/it's attachment. Unless you have nipped the tube, that is....
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2_i
Posts: 296
Joined: 25 Feb 2020, 3:12am

Re: Slow puncture which doesn't show under water

Post by 2_i »

Brucey wrote: 9 Jan 2025, 6:37pm
LittleGreyCat wrote: 8 Jan 2025, 9:30pm.....It is also an unused (but old) inner tube.....
most tubes are checked for leaks before they leave the factory. This certainly reduces, but not completely eliminates the incidence of duff new tubes. Pay special attention to any seams or joins that might be evident, but IME it is much more likely that the leak is in the valve stem eg where it joins or within the core itself/it's attachment. Unless you have nipped the tube, that is....
Come to think of it, I had a couple of batches of Schwalbe tubes, Made in Vietnam I think, that released air through the vents right away. The rubber gaskets in the removable valves were rotten, and tightening them could not stop the leaks. However, for these batches, the air could be heard going out.
mattsccm
Posts: 5311
Joined: 28 Nov 2009, 9:44pm

Re: Slow puncture which doesn't show under water

Post by mattsccm »

Pump the tube up until it is 6" in diameter and take it in the bath with you. A bit of wax crayon allows you to circle the hole and you can do some colouring while you are there.
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