Spain and the helmet debate

[simonhill]

Moderator note - discussion of pros and cons of helmets split off from 'Changes in Spain for Cyclists (Helmets and Hiviz)' thread in Touring & Expedition - viewtopic.php?t=163946

According to 'road cc' some changes to Spanish law.

For tourers, these are mainly helmets to be compulsory everywhere and hi Vis required in low light.

Quotes:

"Perhaps the most striking addition is that motorists will be required to reduce their speed to 20km/h (12mph) below the speed limit when overtaking a cyclist. For example, on a 90km/h road a driver would need to slow to 70km/h to overtake. "

and

"The other changes apply to cyclists who will be required to wear reflective or luminous accessories in low-visibility conditions to enable them to be seen from at least 150 metres away. Helmet-wearing is also to be made mandatory for all cyclists in all situations, although this is only a slight tightening from the previous law and removes certain exceptions that previously stood."

https://road.cc/content/news/new-spanis ... sts-312107

[mjr]

Why is Spain going the wrong way on helmet and hi vis forcing? Aren't they worried about physical inactivity?

[m-gineering]

Why is Spain going the wrong way on helmet and hi vis forcing? Aren't they worried about physical inactivity?

Appearently there is a strong correlation between helmet laws and the BMI of the population. So presumably the BMI went up a notch

[Thehairs1970]

Why is Spain going the wrong way on helmet and hi vis forcing? Aren't they worried about physical inactivity?

I’m always amazed that people would be put off cycling because they have to wear hat. I often see people on my local Sustrans trail without helmets -normally adults (after all helmets will protect little Susie when she falls of but not mum(?!)). Yet they are wearing a bobble hat…Motorcyclists are not put off by wearing helmets and leathers and boots and gloves so why are cyclists. And yes, this discussion has its own forum - sorry.

[mjr]

Why is Spain going the wrong way on helmet and hi vis forcing? Aren't they worried about physical inactivity?

I’m always amazed that people would be put off cycling because they have to wear hat. [...]

Well, I'm not amazed, they are put off, and rightly so IMO. You may be less amazed after one hurts you (a half-pound inch-thick helmet is far more likely to do so than a bobble hat... I wear a bobble hat, partly for warmth and partly to avoid getting scratched by stray branches, plus bobbles are fun), or you stop using helmets and experience noticeably-improved driver behaviour near you.

But can anyone find any reasoning from Spain's law-makers about why they've done this? I'm not even clear if it was a parliamentary process, or some sort of ministerial decree where you only need con one minister not hundreds of MPs.

As I've written in the past, I'm less inclined to visit Spain while they have helmet laws. There's no shortage of places I want to visit and only a few stupid enough to force helmets onto cyclists (in theory if not in practice).

[Thehairs1970]

Well, I'm not amazed, they are put off, and rightly so IMO. You may be less amazed after one hurts you (a half-pound inch-thick helmet is far more likely to do so than a bobble hat... I wear a bobble hat, partly for warmth and partly to avoid getting scratched by stray branches, plus bobbles are fun), or you stop using helmets and experience noticeably-improved driver behaviour near you.

I completely agree. Bobble hats ARE more fun. I am intrigued, if that’s right word, how a helmet hurt you. I have landed on my head two many times to go without.

Why have Spain done this? I suspect because of the international back lash from certain sections against cyclists. Your thoughts on poorer driver behaviour if you wear a helmet may also be a symptom.

[mjr]

When cycling in Majorca I couldn't see the reasoning of not wearing a helmet in town. To me that is the most likely place to have an accident with other traffic.

That's not what helmets protect against!

[drossall]

I’m always amazed that people would be put off cycling because they have to wear hat.

Yes, belongs elsewhere. Post there if you want more discussion. But this is about encouraging people to cycle who would not otherwise do so. as in Cycling UK's objectives. If you're talking about someone who is thinking, "I ought to do more exercise", and you say, "You need protective equipment for this", then a sensible reaction would be, "If it's that dangerous, I'll do something else". Or, quite possibly, do nothing, and die young because of inactivity, which is far more probable than dying young in a cycling accident.

People who need to travel by bike, car or whatever, or are already enthusiasts, are less likely to be put off, you're right.

[mattheus]

I’m always amazed that people would be put off cycling because they have to wear hat.

I would very much like to answer your post helpfully. But I need some clarification first, as to why you are amazed. I think these are the two most likely options:
- You don't understand how making people do something inconvenient is a disincentive. Or
- You wear a helmet, so you lack the empathy to put yourself in the place of someone who does not.

[Bmblbzzz]

I must say I'm not a fan of bobble hats, preferring an unadorned beanie. I hope that's not too controversial

[Thehairs1970]

To those wondering why I am amazed by people who don’t want to wear a cycling hat, I’ll put it in the helmet discussion.

[toontra]

To those wondering why I am amazed by people who don’t want to wear a cycling hat, I’ll put it in the helmet discussion.

Yes please!

[Mtb tourer]

It's up to you if you want to wear a cycling lid. Just remember it is not an all round protective item. 2, broken legs , stitches along eyelash and all the usual roadrash stuff.Did they not do a survey once and say it was an overrated safety item. I can see if you fall and head hits a curb its a help. Only been pulled once in Spain , traffic police heading back to base. Just pointed to my head and drove into the distance.
Carry one sitting on my handlebars,barbag or on the rear panniers as an insurance if a young one out of training applys the law.

[MelW]

We wear cycle helmets when we cycle. We have ridden in Spain, all over. Spain is generally a much safer country to ride a bicycle in than the UK as drivers there are a lot more aware, patient and careful around cyclists than UK drivers. Nevertheless we don't have a problem with what the Spanish propose/do as we see it as common sense. We can't understand all the argy bargy argument against helmets. Better to protect your noggin as much as you can.

As for hi-viz we are not so sure. We do sometimes wear it when cycling in the dark in the UK or on busy roads, but if the roads are quiet and it's a bright day then no we don't. Common sense again really. We carry hi-viz gilets on tour just in case we need them say if caught out riding late in the day having got dark or if fog comes down in mountains or if riding through unlit mountain tunnels. Again common sense. Self preservation.

There are always those screaming and whining about infringement of civil liberties etc being forced to wear a helmet against their choice etc, but if they do get hit by a car and hit their head, they are the ones who are going to end up dead without wearing a helmet if it could have saved their life.

[drossall]

There are always those screaming and whining about infringement of civil liberties etc being forced to wear a helmet against their choice etc...

Can you find them in this thread? Can you even find many of them in this forum? There's plenty of debate, but I think you'll find that's a very minor line of thought.