Ruggedising an old road type bike for rough stuff riding

[Carlton green]

I’m conscious that my cycling experience has been somewhat enhanced by making my road bike into a bike that’s fit for rough stuff too, and in my (admittedly limited) experience the vast bulk of off tarmac riding doesn’t need a mountain bike. Of course the definition of / range covered by ‘off-road cycling’ (this subsection of the forum) is very wide and rough stuff is only one part of what’s covered (ie. not all off road riding is as ‘gentle’ as rough stuff).

Semantics set aside, etc., I thought it might be interesting to and helpful to members to share how they’d made their road bike(s) noticeably fitter for a wider range of use to include rough stuff riding. Whether this thread is in the best part of the forum or not I’m uncertain, it’ll do and should the mod’s move it then I won’t be unhappy.

Rough stuff is a well established and used term in CTC group circles, it's general definition is - There'll be some moaning from the group if you go that way without warning, but you don't need a specialist bike.

Of course some road bikes need little doing to them to prepare them for rough stuff use; let’s be glad of that, move onto the others, and accept that a small percentage of road bikes will have to remain on tarmac - well that or get broken.

The road bike that I use for local rough stuff is my Raleigh Mixte, there’s nothing special about it and it just happens to be what I had. My changes have been minor, simple and progressive; doubtless others will have done better. My first change was mental: I stopped worrying about breaking my bike - it’s cheap enough to scrap - and focussed on pushing it towards and maybe over the limits of what it could sustain.

Wheel durability and ride comfort were the biggest concerns, and that rolling link with the surface traveled over makes a massive difference. The original narrow steel 27 x 1&1/4” wheels and tyres were incrementally changed and I now run on 19mm wide alloy rims shod with 700 x 35C tyres, the difference between those and the originals is night and day. My rear wheel has an SA AW hub which happens to build a very tough wheel, but derailleur wheels can be tough / tough enough too and particularly so if dishing is reduced - that’s a topic worthy of separate discussion, and so is well truing and care in general. My gearing is low, my saddle is comfy, my brakes are (slightly) improved and my handlebars have a bit of padding, but all that was for road use too.

Really I’ve not needed to do much other than set caution aside, identify issues, and progressively make small changes. I wonder what other members have done and invite you to share experiences, etc.

[Nearholmer]

To my mind, the greatest limitation of a lot of older frames for this application is tyre clearance (lack thereof).

As we all know from various discussions here, people used to ride up the north face of the Eiger on tyres the width of razor blades when they were lads, but it is very definitely true that what you can tackle before getting to the push or carry stage, or being vibro-massaged beyond tolerability, increases with tyre width, and I’ve personally found that there is a surprising difference 32mm to 40mm. The difference increases if you go tubeless, but that will doubtless provoke another controversy!

So, if looking for an older bike to ruggedise, I’d say it’s well worth looking for one that has large tyre clearances, and eschewing mudguards to maximise use of those clearances.

The other thing is gearing: you definitely want low gears for the steep and bumpy bits, and personally I find that 3x gets annoying off-road ……. The ratios you want seem to sit across the boundary between the two smaller cogs, whereas with well-chosen 2x you can simply drop onto the smaller ring and leave it there for long periods, focusing on where you’re going. 1x is another controversy generator! Maybe a Rohloff is the ideal ideal, but an expensive retrofit if you’re repurposing an older bike.

[rjb]

When I first started cycling I only had one bike. A racing bike with sprints and tubs. I would take it everywhere on the basis that if it was good enough for cyclocross and the cobbles of Paris Roubaix it would cope with whatever I threw at it.
Don't overthink it just go for it.

[Carlton green]

Don't overthink it just go for it.

That’s increasingly becoming my philosophy; I’m no longer chasing either perfection or the best but rather what gets me over the line of ‘what’s good enough’. What I now have is just the right side of that line (what’s good enough), but what’s OK for some wouldn’t be for others and a margin to push into is nice (not essential but would likely be helpful).

Tyre clearance was mentioned up-thread. Road bikes tend to have limited clearance and mine won’t take wider than 35C tyres. imho moving to C section tyres from imperial was a watershed for me. At a stage in incremental change I was getting by with particular wide inflating tyres on particular wide alloy 27 x 1&1/4 rims, but C section tyres are usefully deeper (the taller section absorbs surface quality variations sooo much better) and they give me a noticeably better ride - I suspect that the wheels are helped to stay truer too.

As asides:
Being a tightwad I’ve kept hold of some 27 x 1&1/4 stuff, whilst it’s perfectly good for a lot of further use I really should simplify life by either selling or discarding it in favour of (the commonly available and arguably superior) 700C size.
If a road frame limited me to 32C tyres then I’d consider getting a sprung saddle for rough stuff riding.

[fatmac]

What I usually did was lower the gearing, fit wider tyres, & straight bars, (gives better control than drops); with a more head up position, (not upright, though), for more vision of the track ahead.

[Nearholmer]

^^^

That formula definitely works.

Here’s what I’ve done for my son (it’s actually now got slightly knobbly 42mm tyres on it), and even with 3x, which he is no fan of, he finds it far more suitable for what he wants than the hardtail MTB tgat he had before.

The one I’m doing at the moment will be similar, but with 2x and probably mudguards.

I like drops for this sort of thing too, especially if there are long easy off-road bits, or road sections, in the ride, so it’s nice to have both sorts in the stable.

A lot depends though upon whether the game plan is strictly “use what I already have”, or whether it is “find old frames to repurpose”, because in the latter case one can look out for frames with better clearances.

[slowster]

For an older bike, the bearings and lubrication would be one of my biggest concerns, especially if the aim was to ride the bike off road in the winter/wet conditions:

- replace cup and cone bottom bracket with a sealed cartridge unit.
- replace any hubs having just basic dust shields with modern era sealed hubs, i.e. Shimano cup and cone or cartridge bearing hubs.
- likewise replace pedals having just dust shields with sealed bearing pedals.
- a traditional headset without seals needs a front mudguard to protect the lower bearings. Without one, I would expect that the headset lifespan would be significantly reduced (and when it failed, I would look for a headset with a seal on the crown race baseplate and cartridge bearings to replace it).

Plenty of good quality grease (even if a headset has cartridge bearings, I like to cover the cartridge and cups in grease).

I use wax lubricant for my chains, which I find very long lasting and does not act as a grit and dust magnet. With a hub gear or singlespeed I might add a Hebie chainglider, especially in winter/wet conditions. Long and wide front mudflap to minimise spray onto the drivechain. Upwards of 10mm mudguard/tyre clearance. Ideally the tip of the front mudguard should extend beyond the 12 o'clock position, because I find that otherwise in the wet I will ride into the spray thrown off and upwards by the top of the tyre, covering the front of me in a fine muddy spray.

A smear of silicone grease on dynamo connectors (which I think is something Son recommend).

If the bike were new/unfamiliar to me, I would effectively disassemble it, coat the inside of the frame with an anti-rust treatment (assuming it was a steel frame), and then re-assemble using grease, anti-seize or thead lock as appropriate on all the theaded parts, seat post etc.

When I began this post, I started to write about components and gearing etc., but I found myself quickly focusing on bearings and lubrication. That is testament to reading posts by Brucey and others on this forum over many years. However, it also reflects my own early experience of bearings that lacked good sealing and needed even more frequent lubrication and even disassembly when ridden off-road, as well as my experience in recent years of having a bike prepared and set up as I describe above. In winter I can ride that bike off-road regularly, without worrying whether I will suffer a mechanical and without post-ride maintenance or cleaning, and for me that is the acid test. I would happily have a bike that was suited to dry/summer conditions, but only if it was in addition to a bike as I have described.

[Nearholmer]

^^^

Yes, it’s quite easy (and expensive) to chomp through even modern parts in the winter if this isn’t right, and so far I’ve found that wheel hubs are the most irritatingly vulnerable. BB feels sort of fair wear and tear, but wheel hubs don’t, and the difference between good ones and not-good ones is night and day. On which point, I understand that the very good Deore 6000 is being discontinued.

[Carlton green]

My thanks for all the responses, quite a wide spread so there’s something for everyone .

Thinking about it my mode of operation has been: ride the bike, alter (what doesn’t perform well enough) and / or repair the bike, ride the bike in a more challenging way, alter and / or repair the bike, and so on until the bike both went everywhere I wanted to go and it stopped breaking. Well that, the occasional enhancement(s) prompted by posts on this forum, and seeing what works - and what doesn’t - for me.

[hamster]

One other point to add:
An old 27" (630) wheel bike is a great start once converted to run 700C wheels. You get a fair bit more tyre clearance for free. My Witcomb will run 33mm tyres (CX knobblies) quite happily.

Here in action on Vias Verdes in Spain:

[AndyB1]

On my Thorn Sherpa I made the following changes to make it a better bike for rougher roads (touring in India):
- tyres changed from 26 x 1.5” to current 1.75” on the back and 2.0” on the front….may go wider yet.
- MTB triple crankset to lower the gearing
- Thorn ‘Touring bars’ and a stem with a steeper angle to raise the bars and bring them closer so I can stand on the pedals more easily. The Touring Bars are quite wide and replaced narrower, lower bars.
- Brooks sprung saddle to gain comfort
- Plastic type toe clips so I can ride in shoes that I can walk in over rough ground
I like to be able to easily carry a bike if I need to so no storage bag in the frame

[mattsccm]

I would look at 700c wheels . Or is it C? Anyway you may get more tyre clearance and a greater choice of tyres. As for hubs I would question the suggestion above about going for cartridge bearings. Of course they can be fine but so can decent cup and cone hubs well maintained. When I bought my first set of racing wheels I was paranoid about damage but soon realised that apart form a more fiddly puncture rectification approach needed with tubs all was fine.

[531colin]

My number one tip; make sure the rider is in balance front to back on the bike. .....this means having very little weight on the bars when freewheeling, so that on a rising road you are pulling up and back on the bars as you push the pedal down. So on roughstuff you can take the weight on your feet, and let the bike move under you like a rocking horse. Move the saddle back to take weight off the bars.
2 .... have the saddle low enough so that when you take your weight on your feet (both feet, one pedal coming up and the other one going down) you are touching the saddle not sitting on it. No sprung saddle needed! (Yes, putting weight on the pedal coming up wastes work; but much less than rattling your body up and down, you are much heavier than the bike)

[pjclinch]

Following on from Colin's points on seated position, irrespective of what the bike is a bit of off-road technique with body position out of the seat can be applied to freewheeling on gnarlier bits (also applies to roads that double as the surface of the moon after a particularly bad meteor shower) and this greatly improves both comfort and control.

This is a good start on body position...



Pete.

[slowster]

As for hubs I would question the suggestion above about going for cartridge bearings. Of course they can be fine but so can decent cup and cone hubs well maintained.

'Old road type bike' is fairly broad, and we may be envisaging quite different bikes and components. The OP's bike has a mixte frame, which I associate with the (earlyish) 1980s and before. The Claud Butler Majestic below which is currently in the For Sale ads was from that era, and represents what I, rightly or wrongly, would think of as an old road bike in the context of this discussion.

I am fairly sure that such bikes typically had only dust shields on the hubs, i.e. no seals, hence my suggestion to replace with hubs with seals, whether cup and cone or cartridge bearings. The rear hub would also have been for a freewheel, and reducing the vulnerability to axle breakage would be another reason to replace the hub. That would likely mean either respacing the rear end to take a wider rear hub with a freehub, or fitting something like a 3 speed hub which would take advantage of the horizontal dropouts for chain tensioning and the likely 120mm rear OLN. Replacing the 27" wheels with 700C would improve mudguard clearance, but the front stays need a pair of Secuclips.

The handlebars on the bike would have been no more than 38cm wide and possibly only 36cm, and whilst narrow bars are back in fashion in the pro peloton, I would want a bit wider for rough-stuff riding.

The rear rack is not rugged enough for rough-stuff riding with loaded panniers, but I would not use panniers for rough-stuff riding on that bike, just a saddlebag or similar small load to keep the bike reasonably light.