YHA

[Pneumant]

And now Manorbier is up for sale
https://www.westerntelegraph.co.uk/news ... each-400k/

That's Broad Haven, not Manorbier.

We had an early morning alarm call at 5am from the fire alarm when I was there walking the Pembrokeshire Coast Path.

My error, for some reason I was thinking of one whilst writing of the other. I have stayed at both also whilst walking the Pembrokeshire Coast Path. From my experience hostel fire alarm sounding was either activated by wayward spiders or youngsters using spray on deodorant en masse, both aggravate the sensors!

[steve.y.griffith]

Re the earlier debate on hostel numbers . I have very useful booklet published in 1993 which lists every hostel open from 1931 to 1991 ( at least every hostel that appeared in a Handbook).
Between 1950 and 1993 the peak was 310 and the least was 240 in 1993 . Typically number fluctuate between 280 and 260 . So the Cycle article is way out .
As a life long hosteller and former volunteer warden I do have some sympathy for the YHA trying to compete in the Airbnb world . However they brought a lot of problems on themselves including financial mismanagement eg borrowing huge amounts to build hostels in London etc . Also getting rid of volunteer warden hostels which usually made a surplus for the YHA .Going for groups only at hostels like Tanners Hatch resulted in a huge loss of revenue.

I have been involved in the two ex YHA hostels now run by the Elenydd Wilderness Hostels charity . We make a healthy surplus which the YHA could have had. A few years ago they terminated our franchise agreement worth £4k to the YHA on the grounds it wasn’t economic. Infact all they had to do was have a website page and a payment system . Reducing the number of franchise hostels simply reduces traffic to their website creating a spiral of decline to which their only answer is to sell yet more hostels which simply reduces future income .

[Steady rider]

Could Cycling UK play a useful part in owning or managing hostels, in locations of most benefit to cyclists?

Currently, I understand Cycling UK has no plans to get involved. I would like to see Cycling UK own several hostels, and see if they can be helpful to cyclists, listed under YHA and cycling name, possibly YHA Cycling... location name.
Say YHA Cycling UK - Cambridge or YHA Cycling UK- Oxford, not sure if this would work.

[rareposter]

Could Cycling UK play a useful part in owning or managing hostels, in locations of most benefit to cyclists?

We're back at your starting post on this thread 9 months ago!

I reckon unless CUK had some very deep pockets and a full on project management team to take this on and potentially to set up some form of collaboration with YHA or a distinct brand of Cycling Hostels, it'd be a no-go.

You'd need a top quality CEO to come in and turn around the overall YHA decline with a new brand. Times change, society has changed, there are far more accommodation options and choices now and the "appeal" of sharing a dorm room with a bunch of random people is very limited.

YHA's rather painful ongoing death struggles are not helping at all. I believe they should just wind it all up, sell everything and die, not have a prolonged fade into irrelevance with piecemeal sell-off.

[axel_knutt]

From my experience hostel fire alarm sounding was either activated by wayward spiders or youngsters using spray on deodorant en masse, both aggravate the sensors!

At one time, Bath had a faulty sensor that kept going off repeatedly, and they had to get the Fire Brigade out to it each time because it was up in the loft. It went off when I was there, and then 3-4 days later I met a Dutch guy at Streatley who said "I was at Bath last night, and the fire alarm went off". Knowing the YHA, I bet they didn't spend any money fixing it until they got a stiff letter from the Fire Chief.

[jimlews]

It would be interesting to compare the travails of the UK YHA with the situation on the continent.
That might shed some light on whether the present"death spiral" is the result of management incompetence, a faulty business model,or some other reason. What is the business model of youth hostels across the channel ? Are there ongoing hostel closure in France, Holland, Belgium ,Germany etc, or are they thriving and successful ?
How does UK YHA compare?

[jgurney]

It would be interesting to compare the travails of the UK YHA with the situation on the continent.
That might shed some light on whether the present "death spiral" is the result of management incompetence, a faulty business model, or some other reason. What is the business model of youth hostels across the channel ? Are there ongoing hostel closure in France, Holland, Belgium ,Germany etc, or are they thriving and successful ?
How does UK YHA compare?

I can only offer a very vague impression. I think someone would need to have insider knowledge of multiple organisations to give a clear accurate picture.

One feature of the YHA is that it kept closer to the original German model than most European equivalents (including West Germany) did in the post-WW2 era. Well into the 80's and 90's YHA and SYHA still set out to provide small simple hostels in rural areas aimed at hikers and cyclists. These often did not provide meals (no kitchen space or staff) and were not near sources of cheap meals, so the members kitchen was ubiquitous. There remained at strong emphasis upon the communal side of hostelling (e.g. everyone doing a bit of the housework) and a high reliance upon volunteers to maintain buildings and support the organisation. E.g. many smaller hostels relied upon volunteer wardens to operate.

Many Continental equivalents from the 1950's onwards had more focus upon young people staying in cities and tourist regions, providing large hostels aimed at those who wanted more comforts than the early hostelers and saw communal facilities more as either a means to save money or as a way to socialise, rather than attaching any ideological overtones to them. One of the most visible differences is the absence of members kitchens in many continental hostels. Most hostels have staffed kitchens providing meals and it is assumed that hostelers will either have those or eat out somewhere nearby (as there usually are various possible providers nearby). Volunteers have a small role, if any.

The nearest thing to an old-fashioned youth hostel in Germany today are the hostels run by hiking and mountaineering clubs, which mainly aim to cater for their members. They do not generally advertise, are run as clubhouses rather than businesses and are not interested in attracting more general holidaymakers.

My own impression is that YHA here fell between the two stools. Trying to shift from being a member-focused club to being a customer-focused semi-business was expensive, and it alienated a lot of volunteers and some existing members while not doing much to bring in more income, while there might not have been enough support, either as overnighters or as volunteers, for the old model to continue, especially in the face of rising costs.

[Steady rider]

CUK have a few million in reserve, YHA has a few million in debt. Not easy to formulate a viable plan, to serve both.

[Bmblbzzz]

Also the cyclist-hosteller overlap is rather small.

[wjhall]

...

One feature of the YHA is that it kept closer to the original German model than most European equivalents (including West Germany) did in the post-WW2 era. Well into the 80's and 90's YHA and SYHA still set out to provide small simple hostels in rural areas aimed at hikers and cyclists. These often did not provide meals (no kitchen space or ...

...
The nearest thing to an old-fashioned youth hostel in Germany today are the hostels run by hiking and mountaineering clubs, which mainly aim to cater for their members. They do not generally advertise, are run as clubhouses rather than businesses and are not interested in attracting more general holidaymakers.

Possibly, although I used to have the impression that the original German model was aimed more at organised groups than the English version, so the later English move towards catering to organised groups could be seen as moving closer to the Teutonic prototype.

The various mountain huts, thinking of the German & Austrian Alpine Clubs, are generally available to non-members, they just do not get the membership discount, which is about 50 %. There may be some member claim to priority at busy times. I think possibly the member discounts are less significant in France & Italy.

Their commercial advantage is probably that they have the Alps, and an unrestricted age range.

Whereas, with a general decline in cycling, hostels like Grantham lost their customer base, not having the Alps to hand. In fact hostels must have lost a worthwhile part of their customer base with the current greater protectiveness about young people. I set off out of the door for my first Hostelling trip (Goole - Burley in Wharfedale.) at fifteen and was out of contact for three days. I once chatted to someone slightly older who departed at fifteen for a three week cycling trip to Cornwall. Today, that sort of thing would probably lead to social services being called.

[wjhall]

Deleted by me as in wrong thread.

[Bmblbzzz]

In fact hostels must have lost a worthwhile part of their customer base with the current greater protectiveness about young people. I set off out of the door for my first Hostelling trip (Goole - Burley in Wharfedale.) at fifteen and was out of contact for three days. I once chatted to someone slightly older who departed at fifteen for a three week cycling trip to Cornwall. Today, that sort of thing would probably lead to social services being called.

At the weekend I was talking to someone now in their early/mid 20s, who had hitchiked from home in Devon to the Lake District at age 15. There, he was stopped by the police, who made him give them his father's phone number. The conversation went along the lines of:
-We've found your son hitchiking on the A66 near Appleby.
-Yes, he's up there for a week of climbing.
-Do you think he should be doing that?
-He does a lot of climbing. What's the problem?
-Well, he's only 15.
-I know how old he is, I am his father.

He might have stayed in a bothy or two, but not in any YHA. He had a tent.

[mattheus]

Excellent!

[axel_knutt]

In fact hostels must have lost a worthwhile part of their customer base with the current greater protectiveness about young people. I set off out of the door for my first Hostelling trip (Goole - Burley in Wharfedale.) at fifteen and was out of contact for three days. I once chatted to someone slightly older who departed at fifteen for a three week cycling trip to Cornwall. Today, that sort of thing would probably lead to social services being called.

At the weekend I was talking to someone now in their early/mid 20s, who had hitchiked from home in Devon to the Lake District at age 15. There, he was stopped by the police, who made him give them his father's phone number. The conversation went along the lines of:
-We've found your son hitchiking on the A66 near Appleby.
-Yes, he's up there for a week of climbing.
-Do you think he should be doing that?
-He does a lot of climbing. What's the problem?
-Well, he's only 15.
-I know how old he is, I am his father.

He might have stayed in a bothy or two, but not in any YHA. He had a tent.

I met a lad at Byrness hostel who was cycling, alone, from Newcastle to the Lake District, to spend the school summer holidays with his grandparents.

I was 13 the first time I went hostelling without an adult, but that was with another lad my age, not alone. The oldest membership card I can find of my father's says 1942, but there's another label underneath, so I assume it's 1941 when he would have been 17. He won't have been touring much before that, because he didn't get his first bike until he was 16. He toured with the Clarion & CTC though, so there would likely have been older members in the party too.

Another side of it is that school parties started insisting on sole use of the hostels after that murder at a hostel in France. Prior to that, they'd take other hostellers as long as there were beds available that weren't in a children's dorm. I recall someone telling me that they made an early booking one year before the school parties got in, and then had the hostel cancel them a few weeks later because a school wanted the whole hostel.

[jgurney]

In fact hostels must have lost a worthwhile part of their customer base with the current greater protectiveness about young people. I set off out of the door for my first Hostelling trip (Goole - Burley in Wharfedale.) at fifteen and was out of contact for three days. I once chatted to someone slightly older who departed at fifteen for a three week cycling trip to Cornwall. Today, that sort of thing would probably lead to social services being called.

Yes, I do wonder how many people who don't get to start hostelling at that sort of age then don't get into it later either. It is simply impossible for anyone under 16 to stay at a YH without an adult today - it is not allowed, and the YHA seem to be trying to discourage solo 16 and 17 year olds as well: their website rather grudgingly admits that they can stay but urges travelling in a group with friends.

My own first solo YHA trip was at 13. By the time I turned 16 I had done several cycle tours staying at hostels, plus a couple of hiking trips.

I recall when I was (just turned) 16 and staying at Tanners Hatch YH with my school's 'YHA Club', I had been at Tanners often enough by then that when the warden wanted to pop out for something, he asked me to stand in for him while he was out. My teacher then came into the room and was surprised to see me at the desk booking in some members who had just arrived, and a bit perturbed to learn that while he was officially in charge of me, I was, at least pro tem, in charge of the hostel. (A few years later I was occasionally his volunteer relief warden on a more formal basis).