SJS Cycles

[reohn2]

I THINK THEY ARE RUBBISH! AWFUL ANGLES SLOPPY FORK ANGLES, AND ALL MADE IN TAIWAn!!! get yourself a real handmade bike built for the same money roberts, dolan,mercian etc. and keep frame building alive in this country enough said!!

And I was tempted by the Hewitt Cheviot. Only another £60 or so - but I felt the need to exercise some control over my spending. Come to think of it, I'm not 100% that some of his off the peg frames aren't from overseas...
Its just as well that most UK frame builders seem to have healthy order books, because I'm afraid that they're too expensive for me to help them along.

The Hewitt Cheviot are made in Taiwan

[aesmith]

And I was tempted by the Hewitt Cheviot. Only another £60 or so

Maybe more than that. Hewitt Cheviot and Chiltern are both listed at £80 more than the Thorn, but remember that Thorn include a decent quality FSA headset and an "OK" seatpost. Say another forty quid if those bits aren't included.

[DaveP]

27.2 seatposts, I have!
Handsome bike though. Just costs more than I had to hand

[Cunobelin]

Wait until ou see the "sloppy angles" on my recumbent trike!

The whole partisan thing is a red herring - try a bike, ride it and if it suits you then buy it and if it doesn't then don't.

If anything, my Thorn is boring, an unexciting solid and stable ride., no quirks, no shimmies or peculiarities at speed or off road,

But then as a fully loaded tourer that is exactly what I wanted so I am delighted with it.

Try one!

[2Tubs]

I THINK THEY ARE RUBBISH! AWFUL ANGLES SLOPPY FORK ANGLES, AND ALL MADE IN TAIWAn!!! get yourself a real handmade bike built for the same money roberts, dolan,mercian etc. and keep frame building alive in this country enough said!!

Wow, you're an angry chap, aren't you.

The cheaper bikes are handbuilt to a very good standard abroad.

The more expensive models are hand built in Bridgwater to an astonishing finish.

I wonder which of these two price brackets we should use when making a like for like comparrison of your list?

Moreover, Thorn are by far the best frame designers for fitting a Rolhof. They started with the Hub and built a frame around that, not bodging the frame to make the hub fit.

Each to their own matey, if you don't want one, don't buy one. But at least make that decision on a half informed view.

Of all the posts in this thread, it's yours that makes me want to buy a Thorn the most.

>;o)

Gazza

[Cunobelin]

Go on - visit!

One of the things about Thorn is the chance to try out - they suggest routes that will enable you to assess the bikes, and there is a variation in miles as well.

Its not a run up and down the road outside the shop!

You will get a good chance to assess the bike before you decide.

[reohn2]

I THINK THEY ARE RUBBISH! AWFUL ANGLES SLOPPY FORK ANGLES, AND ALL MADE IN TAIWAn!!! get yourself a real handmade bike built for the same money roberts, dolan,mercian etc. and keep frame building alive in this country enough said!!

Wheres JWarner has anyone seen him?

[leftpoole]

I THINK THEY ARE RUBBISH! AWFUL ANGLES SLOPPY FORK ANGLES, AND ALL MADE IN TAIWAn!!! get yourself a real handmade bike built for the same money roberts, dolan,mercian etc. and keep frame building alive in this country enough said!!

Wheres JWarner has anyone seen him?

Hello, I posted a suitable response to Mr Warner. It was removed by the 'Moderators'!
John.

[reohn2]

I THINK THEY ARE RUBBISH! AWFUL ANGLES SLOPPY FORK ANGLES, AND ALL MADE IN TAIWAn!!! get yourself a real handmade bike built for the same money roberts, dolan,mercian etc. and keep frame building alive in this country enough said!!

Wow, you're an angry chap, aren't you.

The cheaper bikes are handbuilt to a very good standard abroad.

The more expensive models are hand built in Bridgwater to an astonishing finish.

I wonder which of these two price brackets we should use when making a like for like comparrison of your list?

Moreover, Thorn are by far the best frame designers for fitting a Rolhof. They started with the Hub and built a frame around that, not bodging the frame to make the hub fit.

Each to their own matey, if you don't want one, don't buy one. But at least make that decision on a half informed view.

Of all the posts in this thread, it's yours that makes me want to buy a Thorn the most.

>;o)

Gazza

You know some people make statements then beetle off without defending themselves as to why.
Some people have very fixed ideas about things but it does surprise me when they don't explain why they are so prejudiced.
I checked the "handbuilt built British made" websites and for Audax type bikes the Thorn's "sloppy angles" are within a degree and in some cases 1/2deg of two of the four British frame builders JWarner mentions,Dolan don't count and Roberts only make made to measure I think I'm right in saying.
As for "sloppy fork angles" I'm afraid JWarner loses me completely on this one does he mean head angle if so,then that is surely a frame angle or does he mean fork rake which is IMHO on the Thorn looks about right and also feels right too(bearing in mind I've descended at 45mph plus on mine without so much as a twitter),as I've said before the bike when ridden is very stable I suppose one could say uneventful but then if I'm in the saddle for about 5or6hours then uneventful is what I prefere especially in the last hour of such a ride.
Comfort and stability are just what I'm looking for in an Audax type bike.
It seems JWarner does't like the idea that the frame is built in Taiwan,so I'll ask him again where do you buy your components to turn your hand built British frame into a bicycle,and come to think of it where did your TV,video and DVD players,radio,kettle, oven,iron,lawnmower,etc,etc come from too JWarner

[glueman]

Presumably Mr Warner insists on locally made hubs, rims, spokes, seat pins, stems and derailleurs too?

[leftpoole]

Hello,
Interesting thought about this not made in England (UK?) thing. I would suggest that the people with this attitude ask the following.
How many real born English are actually (born here) making the frames in this country.I know for fact that a number of Brompton employees are not born here but the Brompton proudly proclaims Made in England.
The frames made in England are a rip off price due to high English wages and Rental for buildings etc plus the exhorbitant cost of delivery of tubes to build the frames. As a point here, where does Reynolds tube originate? Mmm I think its somewhere overseas. (USA?)
So you see Made in Taiwan is a real blessing, as at least the frames are build spot on and ride well and look good and most of all are making the bike business in England loads of money!
If a frame made in Taiwan costs less to make, including delivery, the English worker has much to answer for (In my opinion).
John.

[glueman]

The frames made in England are a rip off price due to high English wages and Rental for buildings etc

Let's think this one through. Frame building skills in this country are vital if:
a) you damage your bike or want it altered,
b) Taiwan get bored of making cheap frames and convert to something more lucrative,
c) you have doubts about labour conditions in some of the factories.

Far eastern sourced frames offer good quality and I have a few. It's equally important we support local craftsmen. I hope this doesn't degenerate into a nationalistic debate, it's not one or the other but one man's rip off is another's fair price.

[2Tubs]

Hello,
Interesting thought about this not made in England (UK?) thing. I would suggest that the people with this attitude ask the following.
How many real born English are actually (born here) making the frames in this country.I know for fact that a number of Brompton employees are not born here but the Brompton proudly proclaims Made in England.
The frames made in England are a rip off price due to high English wages and Rental for buildings etc plus the exhorbitant cost of delivery of tubes to build the frames. As a point here, where does Reynolds tube originate? Mmm I think its somewhere overseas. (USA?)
So you see Made in Taiwan is a real blessing, as at least the frames are build spot on and ride well and look good and most of all are making the bike business in England loads of money!
If a frame made in Taiwan costs less to make, including delivery, the English worker has much to answer for (In my opinion).
John.

That's the first time I've seen an argument claiming that something is a rip off because the person producing it wants a living wage.

If only all overseas produced items carried the same guarantee.

Accodring to Thorn literature, the workers producing their frames abroad enjoy a fair and ethical wage.

Gazza

[reohn2]

Hello,
Interesting thought about this not made in England (UK?) thing. I would suggest that the people with this attitude ask the following.
How many real born English are actually (born here) making the frames in this country.I know for fact that a number of Brompton employees are not born here but the Brompton proudly proclaims Made in England.
The frames made in England are a rip off price due to high English wages and Rental for buildings etc plus the exhorbitant cost of delivery of tubes to build the frames. As a point here, where does Reynolds tube originate? Mmm I think its somewhere overseas. (USA?)
So you see Made in Taiwan is a real blessing, as at least the frames are build spot on and ride well and look good and most of all are making the bike business in England loads of money!
If a frame made in Taiwan costs less to make, including delivery, the English worker has much to answer for (In my opinion).
John.

Firstly I think I'm right in saying Renolds (531,631 ,853 ,953,etc) are owned by a Taiwanese firm as is Sturmey Archer(remember them).

As for exorbitant UK wages etc,a man has to live in the country he works in(mostly anyway)with all the costs of living in that country entails.
John28july I'd stop digging if I were you, as assume you live hear too.
That said I don't see either Mercian,Roberts,Bob Jackson etc catching any harm as I think they have found a niche market though one of those firms won't get any business from me in future simply by the way I was treated to on first contact.
I think we have to accept that the vast majority of bikes are made overseas and mainly the far east (I did hear Dawes are made in Vietnam)and also accept that this country as a manufacturing and more importantly engineering manufacturer has had its day,this isn't IMO the fault totally of the consumer though he/she has had his/her role to play.
We are all at the mercy of multinational corperations whose aim is not to make bikes,bath plugs,or anything else but to make money for their investers,investers who run among other things pension funds looking for the best deal for their clients.
What I'm trying to say is that no man is an island.

Like 2tubs I too read the Thorn literiture before placing my order.Though I didn't before buying my Shimano groupset.

[anniesboy]

I well remember buying two XTCs from SJS nearly 8years ago, (one for me and one for my wife).
When we collected these we were "served" by Robin Thorn ,I handed over the cash well credit card,and was immediately told if we did not like them within ? days we could have our money back . Given I had spent over £2000 ,what an offer.
We still both love these bikes and the service from SJS.

PS both were made in Bridgewater