Solar Panel: battery ratio

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roubaixtuesday
Posts: 7760
Joined: 18 Aug 2015, 7:05pm

Re: Solar Panel: battery ratio

Post by roubaixtuesday »

Jdsk wrote: 19 Mar 2026, 1:05pm
roubaixtuesday wrote: 19 Mar 2026, 12:57pm ...
The control system (Fox ESS app) leaves a lot to be desired, though improvements are promised; it's both more complicated than it needs to be and lacks ideal functionality on control of batter charging and discharging.
...
Is there a support forum? Official or unofficial?

Jonathan
Yeah, seems to be semi official.

The way the system is set up doesn't allow obvious options (eg discharge option can end up promptly importing more expensive high rate leccy!).

Known issues with Fox, solutions apparently on the way sometime.
PDQ Mobile
Posts: 5322
Joined: 2 Aug 2015, 4:40pm

Re: Solar Panel: battery ratio

Post by PDQ Mobile »

Jules59 wrote: 20 Mar 2026, 9:45pm I have a 6.6kW solar panel array (the max our roof design would allow), 14.5kWh battery and Zappi 7kW car charger.

Octopus are lowering their tariffs in April.

During the 5 hr night time low rate (5.2p/kWh) we will charge the car , charge the battery, heat the hot water and run the washing machine and dish washer if required.

Even in the dark winter the battery is big enough so that we only occasionally import at the high rate (28p/kWh) . In winter the battery will be down to 10% before it recharges whereas in summer it'll be up at around 90% so doesnt need to much to top it up.

Yesterday (a sunny day in late March) we exported 24kWh at 12p/kWh as we were away from home and only a few electrical things were running , including the pumps for the sewage treatment plant. We imported only 3.4Kwh during that 24 hr period.

Our big issue is the heating oil as there is no gas supply in my neck of the woods, and that has more than doubled in price - so we are trying to eke it out until it gets warmer and then not required until next winter.
I really don't get some of this stuff.
You have a house with an oil boiler and even when you are away it manages to import 3.4 kwhs of leccy?
No car charging involved.
No leccy heating.
But a lot of sewage?!
Average daily consumption (no car or heating)of 15kwh is a big chunk of leccy.

Sometimes it looks from my around 2kwh per day house that most of the benefit comes from off-peak leccy stored in expensive batteries whether car or domestic.
Such off-peak is not always wind energy.

I am unsure if that is the way I want to go.
Using less was always prime aim.
But a fat lot of good it has done me really.
Half my bill is now the standing charge.

I do not have the spare funds or lifespan to make the solar/battery investment now.

The situation where the grid is down, but panels and battery are functioning and full, yet nothing works (because the system needs a functioning grid) really puts one off.
roubaixtuesday
Posts: 7760
Joined: 18 Aug 2015, 7:05pm

Re: Solar Panel: battery ratio

Post by roubaixtuesday »

PDQ Mobile wrote: 20 Mar 2026, 11:00pm Average daily consumption (no car or heating)of 15kwh is a big chunk of leccy
For comparison, ours is typically 5-10 kwhr when we're here. I'm sure this will vary a lot depending on household design.

PDQ Mobile wrote: 20 Mar 2026, 11:00pm Sometimes it looks from my around 2kwh per day house that most of the benefit comes from off-peak leccy stored in expensive batteries whether car or domestic.
I think with such a low usage, it's likely not economic for a battery only installation (unless you fit a heat pump probably).

But with such low usage you'd get a very good return on solar panels and a battery, I think, dependent on having sufficient unshaded roof area.
PDQ Mobile wrote: 20 Mar 2026, 11:00pm Such off-peak is not always wind energy.
"Always" is a high bar! But it would overall increase renewables and reduce fossil fuel use. The very dirtiest and most expensive generators are used at peak, and you'd be reducing peak demand.

PDQ Mobile wrote: 20 Mar 2026, 11:00pm The situation where the grid is down, but panels and battery are functioning and full, yet nothing works (because the system needs a functioning grid) really puts one off.
You can do this, it just increases the cost of installation.

But it increases costs in other ways too - you need to keep the minimum battery charge higher to guarantee you have enough charge for the circumstance. So the effective useable battery capacity is reduced by that much. Which either means you pay for more battery, or reduce the benefit in export at peak and thereby greenhouse gas emissions. So effectively pay twice to get the backup you desire.

Only worthwhile if you get regular power cuts in my view.
PDQ Mobile
Posts: 5322
Joined: 2 Aug 2015, 4:40pm

Re: Solar Panel: battery ratio

Post by PDQ Mobile »

^^^^
I think your assessment pretty good.

I sort of understood the earlier issue about imported and discharged too.
Though if you have some issues understanding and optimising the system, then hope for yours truly is low to non existent!
.........:
Ideally I think an BEV and PV panels would be best here but it's battery would have to double as house battery, (on cost basis).
And so go full-off grid and have the pleasure of getting rid of standing charges!!

Therein lies the rub, any car usage would result in no fridge or freezer containing fair bit of precious home grown stuff.
Otherwise house is ok and could manage no input.

Just off to the woods!
The tress are coming out and starting to gather solar energy and absorb carbon.
Jules59
Posts: 543
Joined: 16 Jan 2019, 2:34pm

Re: Solar Panel: battery ratio

Post by Jules59 »

PDQ Mobile wrote: 20 Mar 2026, 11:00pm
Jules59 wrote: 20 Mar 2026, 9:45pm I have a 6.6kW solar panel array (the max our roof design would allow), 14.5kWh battery and Zappi 7kW car charger.

Octopus are lowering their tariffs in April.

During the 5 hr night time low rate (5.2p/kWh) we will charge the car , charge the battery, heat the hot water and run the washing machine and dish washer if required.

Even in the dark winter the battery is big enough so that we only occasionally import at the high rate (28p/kWh) . In winter the battery will be down to 10% before it recharges whereas in summer it'll be up at around 90% so doesnt need to much to top it up.

Yesterday (a sunny day in late March) we exported 24kWh at 12p/kWh as we were away from home and only a few electrical things were running , including the pumps for the sewage treatment plant. We imported only 3.4Kwh during that 24 hr period.

Our big issue is the heating oil as there is no gas supply in my neck of the woods, and that has more than doubled in price - so we are trying to eke it out until it gets warmer and then not required until next winter.
I really don't get some of this stuff.
You have a house with an oil boiler and even when you are away it manages to import 3.4 kwhs of leccy?
No car charging involved.
No leccy heating.
But a lot of sewage?!
Average daily consumption (no car or heating)of 15kwh is a big chunk of leccy.

Sometimes it looks from my around 2kwh per day house that most of the benefit comes from off-peak leccy stored in expensive batteries whether car or domestic.
Such off-peak is not always wind energy.

I am unsure if that is the way I want to go.
Using less was always prime aim.
But a fat lot of good it has done me really.
Half my bill is now the standing charge.

I do not have the spare funds or lifespan to make the solar/battery investment now.

The situation where the grid is down, but panels and battery are functioning and full, yet nothing works (because the system needs a functioning grid) really puts one off.
Oops I completely forgot about our hot water - : we heat the hot water electrically as required and use electric showers. The sewage treatment plant uses an air pump that runs 24/7 and that alone uses 2kW per day and another pump for the effluent.
We used to have a simple old septic tank which practically cost nothing to run but it was condemned and now septic tanks are forbidden.
Jules59
Posts: 543
Joined: 16 Jan 2019, 2:34pm

Re: Solar Panel: battery ratio

Post by Jules59 »

PDQ Mobile wrote: 20 Mar 2026, 11:00pm
Jules59 wrote: 20 Mar 2026, 9:45pm
I really don't get some of this stuff.
You have a house with an oil boiler and even when you are away it manages to import 3.4 kwhs of leccy?
No car charging involved.
No leccy heating.
But a lot of sewage?!
Average daily consumption (no car or heating)of 15kwh is a big chunk of leccy.
That 3.4kWh import is running background appliances (fridges x2 , freezers x3, router/modem/switches, CH oil & water pumps, security cameras & lights, sewage pumps) when the battery is set to charge for a 5 hour period at night from the grid and is also charging the battery, of course.
It doesnt usually take 5 hours to charge the battery but if you dont want the battery to discharge during the cheap rate period it has to be set to charge mode. This is to minimise use of the high rate import during the day.
PDQ Mobile
Posts: 5322
Joined: 2 Aug 2015, 4:40pm

Re: Solar Panel: battery ratio

Post by PDQ Mobile »

Jules59 wrote: 21 Mar 2026, 8:29pm
Oops I completely forgot about our hot water - : we heat the hot water electrically as required and use electric showers. The sewage treatment plant uses an air pump that runs 24/7 and that alone uses 2kW per day and another pump for the effluent.
We used to have a simple old septic tank which practically cost nothing to run but it was condemned and now septic tanks are forbidden.
Septic tanks are not illegal or forbidden, merely subject to certain requirements?
https://www.gov.uk/permits-you-need-for ... ment-plant
PDQ Mobile
Posts: 5322
Joined: 2 Aug 2015, 4:40pm

Re: Solar Panel: battery ratio

Post by PDQ Mobile »

Jules59 wrote: 21 Mar 2026, 9:22pm
PDQ Mobile wrote: 20 Mar 2026, 11:00pm
Jules59 wrote: 20 Mar 2026, 9:45pm
I really don't get some of this stuff.
You have a house with an oil boiler and even when you are away it manages to import 3.4 kwhs of leccy?
No car charging involved.
No leccy heating.
But a lot of sewage?!
Average daily consumption (no car or heating)of 15kwh is a big chunk of leccy.
That 3.4kWh import is running background appliances (fridges x2 , freezers x3, router/modem/switches, CH oil & water pumps, security cameras & lights, sewage pumps) when the battery is set to charge for a 5 hour period at night from the grid and is also charging the battery, of course.
It doesnt usually take 5 hours to charge the battery but if you dont want the battery to discharge during the cheap rate period it has to be set to charge mode. This is to minimise use of the high rate import during the day.
It's another world!!
rjb
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Joined: 11 Jan 2007, 10:25am
Location: Somerset (originally 60/70's Plymouth)

Re: Solar Panel: battery ratio

Post by rjb »

We replaced our fridge freezer recently as the old one was consuming about 2 units a day. The new one uses about 0.5 units daily. It was a revelation and now saves us over £100 annually.
Peugeot 531 pro, Dawes Discovery Tandem, Dawes Kingpin X2, Raleigh 20 stowaway, 1965 Moulton deluxe, Falcon K2 MTB dropped bar tourer, Longstaff trike conversion on a Giant XTC 840, Apollo transition. :D
Jules59
Posts: 543
Joined: 16 Jan 2019, 2:34pm

Re: Solar Panel: battery ratio

Post by Jules59 »

PDQ Mobile wrote: 21 Mar 2026, 9:28pm
Jules59 wrote: 21 Mar 2026, 8:29pm
Oops I completely forgot about our hot water - : we heat the hot water electrically as required and use electric showers. The sewage treatment plant uses an air pump that runs 24/7 and that alone uses 2kW per day and another pump for the effluent.
We used to have a simple old septic tank which practically cost nothing to run but it was condemned and now septic tanks are forbidden.
Septic tanks are not illegal or forbidden, merely subject to certain requirements?
https://www.gov.uk/permits-you-need-for ... ment-plant
Yes rules changed in 2023 and replacing our septic tank with another one was not allowed as it wouldnt comply with the new rules, primarily due to due to poor drainage.

"Since 2020, the General Binding Rules have been clear on the requirements for properties with septic tanks that discharge directly into a watercourse.

You must either:

1)Install a suitable drainage field or soakaway so that it can be discharged to the ground instead
2)Connect it to a mains sewer
3)Replace it with a small sewage treatment plant"
https://proseptic.co.uk/can-i-still-hav ... installed/


In retrospect it would have been simpler and possibly cheaper to just have a cess pit and have it sucked out regularly.
rjb
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Joined: 11 Jan 2007, 10:25am
Location: Somerset (originally 60/70's Plymouth)

Re: Solar Panel: battery ratio

Post by rjb »

Lidls have been in talks with Ed Miliband over selling balcony solar systems in it's stores. This requires some changes to current regulations. ( No pun intended)
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/400-p ... ls-4312651
Peugeot 531 pro, Dawes Discovery Tandem, Dawes Kingpin X2, Raleigh 20 stowaway, 1965 Moulton deluxe, Falcon K2 MTB dropped bar tourer, Longstaff trike conversion on a Giant XTC 840, Apollo transition. :D
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al_yrpal
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Re: Solar Panel: battery ratio

Post by al_yrpal »

rjb wrote: 24 Mar 2026, 1:13pm Lidls have been in talks with Ed Miliband over selling balcony solar systems in it's stores. This requires some changes to current regulations. ( No pun intended)
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/400-p ... ls-4312651
Thats interesting. The panel(s) must have an inverter and synchronising device built in? A friend of mine has a heater in his sitting room that he says is powered by roof panels. He has strong connections with his daughter who lives in Augsburg.
We have a double pitched roof that could accommodate some panels not visible from the ground thus avoiding the toxic gaze of the listed building idiots.

Al
Reuse, recycle, to save the planet.... Auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Boots. Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can...... Every little helps!
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