Tree/shrub IDs please

[slowcyclist]

I see there are quite a few green thumbs on these forums so shall give it a go posting them here.

I have been doing some clearing lately and a few I have been scratching my head as to their ID.

Online identification sites can be very hit and miss. Often the images look nothing like what I have or the descriptions of the details nothing like it when looking for the specifics, as in the case of the thorn ones you will see, or images are only in bloom.

The thorny one looks like a hawthorn from descriptions I read online but then that falls apart when I read the thorn shoots should have what looks like a smiley face under, or was it mouth sucking a lemon? well it has neither.

The smooth grey one laying to the side I think I have IDed as an Ash?

The the rose stem looking one I think is probably either a dog rose or wild rose? The mottled one, with sandy coloured bark, which is cut down in the pictures I am most stumped on. I ended up just coppicing to the ground as I figure it will encourage new growth from the base then. On a walk yesterday I have seen a few of these about so quite common, whatever it is.

The twisty one too not sure about.

Let's see if the formatting works:

[Paulatic]

I’d hazard a guess at
Blackthorn
Elder although I’d expect anyone to immediately know that one as it’s so distinctive so probably not.
Willow
Ash

[slowcyclist]

I’d hazard a guess at
Blackthorn
Elder although I’d expect anyone to immediately know that one as it’s so distinctive so probably not.
Willow
Ash

Thanks, apart from the elder my guesses were just the same as yours. The willow one I thought it might be some kind of variety but wasn't sure. The images online can actually do more harm than good sometimes when you see what is called x and it doesn't look like the images they have, which was the case here.

As for Elder I have no idea what one looks like. New to tree IDing generally. Before I had any to manage I could not have cared less, trees were trees, unless there was something remarkable about them. Just looked it up and this image of an elder shrub certainly looks like it.

On the other hand: this image looks nothing like the bark!


Oh by the way whatever it is the bark is much softer than normal trees. The saw glides through. Not only softer but feels like less mass too, like a mix between bark and stem. Kind of hollow feeling and if you tap it against something the sound is more tinny than a lower pitch thud you would get from normal bark.

Edit: Hmm however this description does sound just like what I explained above!

Bark

The bark is greyish-brown. The young bark contains a lot of ‘warts’ called lenticels. As the bark becomes older, it develops deep creases.

The young branches are very brittle and filled with a creamy-white pithy tissue used for holding plant material if you want to cut it into very thin slices (for viewing under the microscope for example). The hollow branches make a good musical instrument!

Oh and there was one you didn't attempt, it is the rose type one on the right of the 'elder' in these two pictures:
https://postimg.cc/G8Bzz2PW
https://postimg.cc/KkKQQzr2

[Paulatic]

Elder…soft bark yes. The only thing I never bother cutting up for the stove. It also has a distinctive smell of cat pee especially the blossom and berries.

I’d agree that is also a wild rose.

[Jdsk]

Online identification sites can be very hit and miss

.Have you tried PlantNet?

Jonathan

[slowcyclist]

Online identification sites can be very hit and miss

.Have you tried PlantNet?

Jonathan

No, hadn't come across that one, thank. Just looked and indeed it looks like a good resource! Very exhaustive and most important lots of images to refer to! I hate those sites which say 'how to identify x' and not one picture! Most probably some bot created content.

Just the initial browse for elder and thousands of pictures for each attribute and seeing some looking a lot like the bark mine has. Again, that is the problem with most other sites, only one or two images and quite likely the ones taken are of a stage that the tree in question isn't in.

[slowcyclist]

Elder…soft bark yes. The only thing I never bother cutting up for the stove. It also has a distinctive smell of cat pee especially the blossom and berries.

I’d agree that is also a wild rose.

Hmm, hehe and people like to make beverages and such from it? Now you mention it my mum makes elder flower cordial quite often, is this the same plant as I know there are trees and plants? I know what that smells like, but wouldn't liken that to cat pee really. I would class it as a pretty mild smell.

Just a quick search and it does seem that one is from the elder tree as well. Perhaps one man's pee is another man's mild aroma?

[ed.lazda]

Elder…soft bark yes. The only thing I never bother cutting up for the stove

Properly seasoned, elder burns pretty well in a stove. Split smaller bits make reasonable kindling too.

[Jdsk]

Elder…soft bark yes. The only thing I never bother cutting up for the stove

Properly seasoned, elder burns pretty well in a stove. Split smaller bits make reasonable kindling too.

The derivation of elder is probably from aeld meaning fire, but that might be because you can make *blowpipes from it rather than because you can burn it. And then there's the witch problem...

Jonathan

* And whistles, see Sambucus.

[slowcyclist]

Another issue for y'all's perusal.

Many trees in my small woodland have what look like large open sores where the bark has stripped back and the wood above often is dead for a section of the tree up to the tip.

This is happening mostly on the Aspen, which is what most of the trees in the woodland are, but I noticed the sores on the Oak and Hazel too so it seems to rule out my initial thought that it was some kind of disease which Aspen are subject to unless diseases can affect multiple species?

Another thought I had is that the trees might just be too close together causing too much competition where they are unable to grow properly? The woodland grew naturally I believe since the spacing is so tight with many only a ft or less apart. Could this be the cause?

The Hazel and Oak don't seem as badly off but the Aspen are mostly in a sorry state with many with large deadspots and many of the smaller suckers are totally dead and you can push them over with a finger and they will snap.

As I required wood for stakes for some dead hedging I have been clearing the Aspen trees with the thought that coppicing might help the woodland get a fresh start.

[Jdsk]

Please could you add some photos.

Thanks

Jonathan

[slowcyclist]

Another one...(no photos, try and guess please?) what could a few trees be that have a crimson type of bark but grow straight like an arrow and the bark is kind of smooth?

Definitely not conifers, at least not the usual rough barked ones I see in most forestries.

They grow straight up to a point at the top (I think, from memory) and pretty tall. Much taller than hazel for instance; between the size of those smaller type trees and an oak, about middle sized between them.

It is crimson smooth bark with like silver circular patches sometimes, maybe fungus.

I am creating a hedge by laying from trees around the perimeter of the woodland and interested to know the characteristics of each.

Can any tree be laid? I figured even if at worst they died then it would be no different than just cutting them down to make a wooden fence so can't lose really though I don't want to cut these if they won't grow back as there are so few of them.

Most of the woodland is Aspen which I have been laying. Couldn't find any reference to Aspen and hedgelaying with the usual suspects being Blackthorn, Hawthorn and Hazel and a few others. Oh I do have a thick patch of Blackthorn, which I have laid at the appropriate place and looks amazing, but I must lay whatever trees are there in the section I am working with.

There quite a few willows further round, not sure when I will get to them. Again, very scant information on laying them, but I know it is extremely hard to kill willow so don't have any doubt they would lay and be quite happy.

These straight ones are so uniform it feels almost a waste to lay them and maybe keep them for a project that would better benefit from that regularity of shape. Oh and I might just leave them. That is why I want to find out what they are because if they are coppicable I may take them down but I won't I will if it would mean I would lose that tree type if they wouldn't grow back because there are only a few of them and quite different from the other ones in the woodland so don't want to make them extinct in my wood just for a few extra logs.

On the other hand if trees are coppicable I feel like I am helping them by doing it.

[Paulatic]

Sounds like Alder maybe.
I always, when younger, associated it with burn sides but I’ve a tall one in my plot and I’m a half mile from water.

[slowcyclist]

Sounds like Alder maybe.
I always, when younger, associated it with burn sides but I’ve a tall one in my plot and I’m a half mile from water.

What is burn sides?

Just looked it up and alder - even the red variety - looks silver.

This is deep crimson coloured bark on mine.

[Paulatic]

Burns ..not Robbie
You might call them a beck, brook, stream?