courtesy conundrum...

[simonineaston]

Here at my home, I exit & enter via a communal hallway with double doors giving out to the street. Often, I arrive at the same time as other occupants. Often, they help by holding the doors open, a courtesy I neither need nor have asked for. I imagine this scenario will be familiar to most long standing cyclists. How do I tell the kindly neighbour that their intervention is unnecessary, without causing offence? Or do I just swallow the minor annoyance of receiving helped where none was needed?

[Jdsk]

Why is that annoying?

I’d smile and thank them.

Jonathan

[Mike Sales]

I spend a lot of my time getting about on crutches. I have become adept at managing swing doors, but I still thank those who hold the door open for me.
There are also times when people rush to help and I am very glad of it.

[fatmac]

I agree, just thank them for their thoughtfulness....

[Cugel]

Here at my home, I exit & enter via a communal hallway with double doors giving out to the street. Often, I arrive at the same time as other occupants. Often, they help by holding the doors open, a courtesy I neither need nor have asked for. I imagine this scenario will be familiar to most long standing cyclists. How do I tell the kindly neighbour that their intervention is unnecessary, without causing offence? Or do I just swallow the minor annoyance of receiving helped where none was needed?

Such gestures are not about helping you get through the door, they're an acknowledgement of your presence and a signal that a kindly relationship is preferred to an uncaring or rude one.

I can only suggest that you consider the subject of semiotics and the many advantages, more than just those that are immediate and obvious, of interpersonal signalling within human societies.

For tips and demonstrations, consider the antics when one dog first meets another. (Mind, you have to speak dog for that).

PS Consider the phrase, "Manners maketh man" and what it might mean in the widest sense.

[SimonCelsa]

For tips and demonstrations, consider the antics when one dog first meets another.

I hope you are not advocating that he starts sniffing his neighbours arris?

Anyhow, back to the original question; just say something like "it's OK mate, I'm just going to stop here for a second and have a smoke / vape" or somesuch. This should allow the neighbour to release their obligation to hold the doors open for you, and give you time to have a breather. Although really, I can't see what the problem is!!

[axel_knutt]

I spend a lot of my time getting about on crutches. I have become adept at managing swing doors, but I still thank those who hold the door open for me.
There are also times when people rush to help and I am very glad of it.

I got told off when I opened a door with a strongly sprung closer for a disabled guy on crutches, he said he was liable to fall over if the door opens just as he's about to push on it.

[Carlton green]

Here at my home, I exit & enter via a communal hallway with double doors giving out to the street. Often, I arrive at the same time as other occupants. Often, they help by holding the doors open, a courtesy I neither need nor have asked for. I imagine this scenario will be familiar to most long standing cyclists. How do I tell the kindly neighbour that their intervention is unnecessary, without causing offence? Or do I just swallow the minor annoyance of receiving helped where none was needed?

How fortunate are you to have neighbours that want to help and be supportive? I’d say very fortunate indeed and whilst you might not need the help (it’d be wise to still) be appreciative of it. Simple acts of kindness and consideration go to build friendships, mutual respect and community, and all those have real value that is in itself a form of wealth.

In this case you don’t need the help but there are downsides to turning it away. When help is turned away it has a negative effect on others who may well feel rejected in multiple ways, and having been rejected they certainly won’t be there for you on those occasions that you need them.

Others above have responded better than I, but I would like to add weight to their voices suggesting the importance of, for want of a better term, social niceties. That might all sound a bit too ‘arty farty’, but I’m far from such a personality and have many bruises from the school of hard knocks which, if painfully so, has provided a great education.

Such gestures are not about helping you get through the door, they're an acknowledgement of your presence and a signal that a kindly relationship is preferred to an uncaring or rude one.

I can only suggest that you consider the subject of semiotics and the many advantages, more than just those that are immediate and obvious, of interpersonal signalling within human societies.

PS Consider the phrase, "Manners maketh man" and what it might mean in the widest sense.

^^ Absolutely .

"Manners maketh man". It takes a bit of thinking about though and a few years ago I’d not have grasped as much of the wider sense.

[peetee]

Count yourself lucky they are so courteous.
At one place I worked I was made to feel like I was employed as 4” long triangular wedge. I would often hold the door open for others following me and be completely ignored - unless I rather sarcastically responded “my pleasure” to which the deviant would invariably return a scornful frown only to see a deeper, more penetrating furrow upon my own brow.

[simonineaston]

Thanks for your comments, folks. The take-away message for me is to try to be more generous and kind.

[slowcyclist]

The original post and also the reply show an alarming lack of social intelligence. Lol what does being generous and kind on your part have to do with it, like you are doing them a favour by accepting them holding the door open for you? It is simple rapport. It is not feeding the five thousand. You seem to be making a huge thing out of a tiny social custom.

I have lived in numerous major cities in the UK which some would say would be cold austere places where people will ignore you in the street. Most times, if you live in the same building, or even going to a shop, they will hold the door for you. What is really annoying are those exceptions when people don't do it. They come off as rude and callous or aloof. Maybe you are one of the exceptional people who do that?

Would you prefer being totally ignored and the door slammed when you were inches away?

It is strange that you know it is a courtesy, thus not lacking the awareness of that, yet see it as a problem. Why is courtesy a problem to you? Maybe you need some self reflection on that, perhaps a self esteem issue. Do you feel unworthy of the courtesy? Maybe you fear opening up to people or not deserving of affection. Or maybe the opposite, you are simply sociopathic so don't understand these strange sentimental tendencies of other humans.

On the other hand if it actually is more trouble practically than doing it yourself, I could picture a scenario where their kindly act means you awkwardly trying to shuffle past, bike in hand, with them blocking in the doorway, then you simply look ahead and hang around out of distance until they go in when the coast is clear.

That reminds me of a valid reason NOT to do it when I was in a big city. There were quite a few issues with crime at one very central place of people tailing along behind only to be thieves so we were specifically told not to hold the door for people. In practice it was quite easy to tell the difference between an upstanding 'young professional' and a 'street person'. Not making value judgements in either case, but that was the reality of it.

[Cugel]

The original post and also the reply show an alarming lack of social intelligence.

[snip]

That reminds me of a valid reason NOT to do it when I was in a big city. There were quite a few issues with crime at one very central place of people tailing along behind only to be thieves so we were specifically told not to hold the door for people. In practice it was quite easy to tell the difference between an upstanding 'young professional' and a 'street person'. Not making value judgements in either case, but that was the reality of it.

Perhaps this post shows an alarming lack of cultural intelligence?

It's long been something of a national joke that certain cities in the south of England, notably London, have a cultural tradition that sees many afraid of strangers; and virtually everyone remaining a stranger to even those living nearby as a result.

I personally came across this syndrome many times when in London over the years. Don't strike up a conversation with a stranger in a public place because they're likely to be shocked and afraid that you're a loon latching on to them! A contrast to the city I was most used to (Newcastle upon the river Tyne) wherein everyone tells everyone else they see on the street their life story given half a chance and half an hour of happy yattering.

The fear of criminals following one prior to an assault and robbery may be a legit fear in some of the darker 'oles found in all cities (and elsewhere). But the rather prevalent London and similar fear of all stranger-interactions has always seemed a queer thing to many from up-North, where strangers are regarded as potential entertainment and a welcome opportunity to gas on & on & on & ...... .

[Carlton green]

The original post and also the reply show an alarming lack of social intelligence. Lol what does being generous and kind on your part have to do with it, like you are doing them a favour by accepting them holding the door open for you? It is simple rapport. It is not feeding the five thousand. You seem to be making a huge thing out of a tiny social custom.

I have lived in numerous major cities in the UK which some would say would be cold austere places where people will ignore you in the street. Most times, if you live in the same building, or even going to a shop, they will hold the door for you. What is really annoying are those exceptions when people don't do it. They come off as rude and callous or aloof. Maybe you are one of the exceptional people who do that?

Would you prefer being totally ignored and the door slammed when you were inches away?

It is strange that you know it is a courtesy, thus not lacking the awareness of that, yet see it as a problem. Why is courtesy a problem to you? Maybe you need some self reflection on that, perhaps a self esteem issue. Do you feel unworthy of the courtesy? Maybe you fear opening up to people or not deserving of affection. Or maybe the opposite, you are simply sociopathic so don't understand these strange sentimental tendencies of other humans.

On the other hand if it actually is more trouble practically than doing it yourself, I could picture a scenario where their kindly act means you awkwardly trying to shuffle past, bike in hand, with them blocking in the doorway, then you simply look ahead and hang around out of distance until they go in when the coast is clear.

That reminds me of a valid reason NOT to do it when I was in a big city. There were quite a few issues with crime at one very central place of people tailing along behind only to be thieves so we were specifically told not to hold the door for people. In practice it was quite easy to tell the difference between an upstanding 'young professional' and a 'street person'. Not making value judgements in either case, but that was the reality of it.

There’s quite a lot in that response that resonates as truth, but whether it might have been better expressed I’m not so sure. Maybe it’s just me but I’m not seeming negative comments towards the OP as helpful to him, and help - constructive comment - towards our fellow posters is surely about what this place is about.

As mentioned in Cugel’s post it’s interesting to observe the North / South contrast in the outgoing natures of people, I wonder where its roots lie. I’ve lived in both regions and found both lovely people and rouges in each, sometimes you also find silly people - maybe me included - that should be more guarded in their conversations. Is the person before you really as nice as you think they are?

As for immediate security and personal safety I’d have high concerns in anywhere where ‘poverty’ was obvious, when someone doesn’t know where their next meal - or whatever - is coming from then honest living falls victim to survival. The OP is, iirc, from Bristol which has its rough parts but is generally thought of as desirable (property there can be jolly expensive) so as such I’d have thought it mostly a safe place to be.

Social norms, well some sensitivity is needed to identify and act upon them. Not everyone has that sensitivity and I’d encourage tolerance; I’ve got by in life but as I look back there ain’t half a lot of things I wish I’d either known, recognised or better understood. ‘Fools rush in where Angels fear to tread’ is a very old ‘saying’, but when I apply the concept more widely I see that most of us are fools, people speaking and taking actions without a full enough understanding of what we’re interacting with. Most of us are still ‘work in progress’ and we will be until we die.

[slowcyclist]

a queer thing to many from up-North.. .

The 'all northerners are friendly' is far too much of a generalization. I was thinking of Manchester in my original comment. Would love to see how your happy go lucky expectations would go down in some of the gang infested parts walking up to a bunch of hooded lads in black and expecting to be entertained.

If you tootle up on your bike I think you would be taking public transport back! Sure if you have an 'open heart' they might be fine with you but no guarantees and certainly not a guarantee they will be friendly. The culture is to 'look hard' and often to prey on people they see as weaker, to take what they can, gets them respect from their peers.

Large northern cities are just like large southern or midlands, or wherever big cities. Guns, gangs, violence and other crime being more casual fare. There is not some goldilocks zone where everyone is skippiing holding hands in large cities in the north just because they are northern.

With all that noted I have also had many great interactions and memories from larger cities. I lived in them most of my life so there was a reason just that the 'all northerners are friendly' is just another urban legend, like Carlton notes above there are good and bad of each in every part of the UK though it is a fact there is more violent crime in cities.

There are even well known gangsters in your beloved Newcastle. Never heard of ones like Vic Dark, Brian Cockerill, Lee Duffy? All menaces in their time in that North Eastern area. Just because you were insulated from it doesn't mean it didn't exist.

[slowcyclist]

There’s quite a lot in that response that resonates as truth, but whether it might have been better expressed I’m not so sure. Maybe it’s just me but I’m not seeming negative comments towards the OP as helpful to him, and help - constructive comment - towards our fellow posters is surely about what this place is about.

I thought the comments were constructive? Inviting the OP to do some self reflection as a counsellor might and opening up for discussion on that line. I admit the sociopath comment was inflammatory but was a bit tongue in cheek in the ol' dry humour british way.

I agree we are all works in progress. Not professing otherwise. I make gaffs all the time too, which some may view my initial post as being, was not professing perfect knowledge.