Cyclist-HGV incidents

[Phil_Lee]

You mean you deliberately try to run them into the back of parked vehicles?

And where have I said that?

If you hadn't selectively snipped the part where you said you were overtaking on the approach to a narrowing in the roadway, it would have been obvious.

because I've already got the front of the lorry a good 10-20ft past them before they decide to pull out.

Maybe you should try waiting behind them until after they've passed the obstruction?
Or do you really believe that your schedule is more important than their lives?

[meic]

Congratulations Conor you are the first (only?) one to say he is willing to wait as long as it takes before overtaking. If only the majority of trucks were like that when the wait exceeds ten or fifteen seconds.
In return I will pull over when I get the chance and let you past.

How about my other burning question.

How far back is the cycle you are overtaking when you start pulling back into the left during an overtake?

[meic]

Conor
meic wrote:

If so why dont they wait until they can overtake at a safe distance?

you answered
Because a lot of the time, the road isn't wide enough. My ideal safe distance is at least the other side of the road because it's the only way you can guarantee the wobbling loons won't cycle into you in blind panic as you pass.

Can I suggest that your ideal passing distance is ALWAYS the other side of the road.

I have once or twice been turned into a wobbling loon by the effect of a 60mph lorry (in a 40mph limit to them) passing me at 30+ mph so close that their slipstream almost pushed me over.
They would of course have carried on to complete their 2500 miles that week without accident.

I realise the highway code says leave at least as much room as when passing a car and that "at least" gives you a lot of scope especially if you dont give cars much room.

[Phil_Lee]

Quoted post removed so this one now irrelevant

[meic]

Sorry Phil I decided to delete that posting as I decided it wasnt worth the hassle.

[Simon L6]

there's a simple rule when riding in town - reduce the opportunity for car drivers, and HGV drivers to overtake in dangerous situations to a minimum.

Take the first position, which gives you the option of fading left if they decide, against their better judgement, to go for it. Don't fade left after passing parked cars unless you're prepared to let them overtake you in a manner that will give you time to move right before the next parked car.

The sad truth is that if you look as if you could catch them up at the next lights, drivers will treat you with a great deal more respect. Mrs L is cut up from time to time, at places where the driver would never dream of doing the same to me.

I have chased an HGV rider down, climbed into the cab and thumped the man - he'd overtaken me on left hand bend on the Embankment so closely that I'd had to jam on the brakes. I was younger then (47). These days I confine myself to a little disquisition on their manifest sexual inadequacies. If I'm feeling particularly benign I let them know about a noise emanating from the near side rear hub - 'sounds as if the bearings have gone guv...'.

Over the years I've come to the view that drivers overtake because they are in a panic. So great is the urge to go at the maximum speed, to catch up the car in front, that they simply get in a flap when they're behind a slower moving vehicle. That's not all drivers, of course - but a substantial minority really do feel the veins in their foreheads constricting.

[glueman]

Always assume drivers are frustrated, bored and not in full control of their vehicles. Add the superiority suggested by a high cab and large vehicle mass and if trucks can get away with 'it' they probably will.
To pilot an artic on roads designed for a coach and horses takes immense patience - far in excess of that required by the company timetable - and considerable skill. They only have to get one move wrong in 100,000 for a fatality.
I almost got creamed on the first trip on my folder by a Magnet kitchens lorry that forced me into a gap between cars. The company said their driver 'didn't recall the incident'. I'm almost tempted to believe him. Almost.

Hobbyhorse alert! The loads should be on the bloomin' railway!

[Simon L6]

my greatest worry is construction traffic, particularly lorries hauling spoil. And my greatest frustration is that they wouldn't be on the road at all if designers took their responsibilities to the wider world seriously, and the HSE concerned itself with off-site fatalities as much as they did about the modern bricklayer's mascara running every time he lifts a heavy block.

[2Tubs]

Poor devil.

Is that meant to be a deterrent, you'll have to get another job in another industry?

A deterrent on other drivers yes, because taking someones livelyhood away is believe it or not quite devastating
Also the law worked, he's no longer driving a truck. One less danger to other road users.

Quite likely, none, but then if I write some dodgy code I'm not likely to kill anyone.

Yes it is indeed easy to judge others when you're working in a nice safe enviroment.

When I’m on my cycle, it should be a nice safe environment. But some of your buddies turn that around a little. Before you go on about cyclists without lights, who run red lights and cycle on pavements, I ain’t one of them. I’m a responsible road user, married with two kids and I just enjoy using a cycle responsibly.

I have to say, for the most part, your buddies are fine. Most get it. Some truckers will wait till the far lane is empty to overtake me on a dual carriageway and move right into the right most lane.

But then another have just drove at me sounding their horn. Many have nearly overtook me before moving into my path. Some have sat behind me, 6 inches off my back wheel waiting to overtake.

I didn’t do anything to provoke any of that.

And it’s those people I’m complaining about.

Couldn’t care less if an idiot cyclist did something stupid. It’s unlikely to hurt anyone but the cyclist. But how about that trucker driving at me. What risk with his personal safety is he taking?

And I haven't been talking about mistakes, I've been taking about criminal negligence or wanton endangerment, if you read the examples I've quoted. It's hardly a mistake to deliberately drive at a cyclist, overtake one and forget they're there, or watch DVD'swhile driving.

Was that his defence, I watched DVD's by mistake, it was an accident?

I've never given him a defence, I think dangerous driving is abhorrent only to be condemned.

Hmm, explain
This happens how often. Nice theory, lets see an example from real life.

Are you saying that cyclists don't have the potiental to cause accidents for other road users?

Nope, it’s possible. Look at the moron who killed a girl recently. But it’s very rare. Let an untrained idiot lose on a cycle and he’s most likely to kill himself very quickly. But who cares, he’s an idiot and probably deserves what he gets.

If an idiot turns up the inside of a truck and the truck turns. He’s one less bag packer at Tesco’s.

But if we let an idiot truck driver lose, Hmm. Family of 6. One less 10 week old kid with a whole life ahead of them. That one truck did more damage in one accident than it took all the cyclists in the UK to do in the best part of a year.

So yeah, lets worry about the threat of those cyclists huh. They’re killers don’t you know.

Now you're getting a bit hysterical. I haven't said ban trucks. I've asked for a serious deterrent to idiot driving.
It's not a lot to ask for drivers of all sorts to take their responsibilities seriously.

I totally agree. But a driver has the onus on him a lot more, the potiental to kill so easily is always in your mind when driving something so large. Much more so than in a car.

You’d hope so and I’m sure for most truckers, that’s true.

But haven’t we been talking about the idiots?

In your case you seem to thin that’s all cyclists. Not so. Most are sensible road users. And for the rest of them, they’re a big risk to themselves.

But in the case of idiots, was it a road awareness DVD this trucker was watching warning of the dangers of driving something so large?

As above, never said we don't need trucks. Stop making up the argument you wish I'd made.

I never said you made that argument, I suggested that there was no alternative to having trucks on the road.

Still never argued that there was. There is an alternative to having idiots controlling heavy killing machines. And that’s not to have them, the idiots that is. (yes, I know you agree, not saying that that was your point).

And rightly so. A cyclist doesn't have the potential to kill as much a trucker does.

Not the actual cycle no, but a cyclist has the potential to cause an accident which costs lives as much as any road user. My reason to think that cyclists should be governed more.

You have to be fat and smell >;o)

It's always nice to see someone resort to using insults because they know they've lost the argument.

Oh it was a joke, there’s even a smiley. Calm down ya big fool. Nice to know someone will use any diversionary tac tic etc etc . . .

It was one of those generalisations. A bit like all cyclists are dangerous fools etc.

Boot and foot.

So you have to be able to drive a truck to understand you shouldn't drive them at other road users or watch DVD's whilest driving them.

Like I said earlier, I refuse to defend bad road use whoever it is by.

I've never taken heroin either, but I still no it's a bad idea. Get a grip of yourself mate.
Gazza

So you're saying driving a truck is a bad idea. Well remember that when you're eating your breakfast tommorow, delivered by truck.

Nope. I’m using a silly analogy to show that unlike you appeared to claim, you don’t need to be a truck driver to know that driving one at a cyclist, or while watching DVD’s, or reading maps, or overtaking cyclists and turning across their paths, or overtaking cyclists and moving back to the left once the front wheel has nearly passed said cyclist is a bad idea.

You might prefer it if I was arguing that all trucks should be off the road, but I say (again) that I’ve never said that. What I’m saying is that riding a cycle badly is unlikely to inure anyone but the cyclist. Nope, it’s possible to hurt other people. If I run a read light (never do, but some cyclists do) and plough into the side of a bus full school children (I don';t think they do this too often . . .), how many of the school children will be injured or killed? Now if a truck driver did it (I’m sure you never have but we’ve both seen truck drivers run red lights. In spite of all that training they get huh?), what about those kids?

Stick to the issue, it isn’t “oooh trucks bad” it’s “oooh, bad truck drivers bad”

Gazza

[Conor]

Congratulations Conor you are the first (only?) one to say he is willing to wait as long as it takes before overtaking. If only the majority of trucks were like that when the wait exceeds ten or fifteen seconds.
In return I will pull over when I get the chance and let you past.

How about my other burning question.

How far back is the cycle you are overtaking when you start pulling back into the left during an overtake?

As long as I can see them, a good 10ft or more behind the rear of my lorry. What I consider an absolute minimum when passing someone is 2ft and then with reduced speed.

[meic]

That sounds good to me, as a minimum. If this happened to me at all times then I would be likely to believe that the incidents were due to cyclists.
Wheras this is what we have to live with here in the UK. It would still be illegal in France where you would be obliged to leave 1metre, not 2 foot.

May I draw your attention to Rule 206 of the highway code where it says cyclists and motorcyclists should be left room to deviate course around surface defects. Two feet is not much room to move in, especially as 2 feet is already closer to a moving truck than I would chose to be.

[EdinburghFixed]

Perhaps you should think about what I wrote...

"Thankfully I recognise that cyclists seem to have absolutely no idea of the Highway Code, specifically rules 162 and 168."

I was pointing out that 162 and 168 have no bearing whatsoever on cyclists passing parked cars. They refer only to overtaking moving vehicles!

Thankfully, I recognize that HGV drivers seem to have absolutely no idea of the Highway Code either!

[Conor]

Congratulations Conor you are the first (only?) one to say he is willing to wait as long as it takes before overtaking. If only the majority of trucks were like that when the wait exceeds ten or fifteen seconds.
In return I will pull over when I get the chance and let you past.

How about my other burning question.

How far back is the cycle you are overtaking when you start pulling back into the left during an overtake?

As long as I can see them, a good 10ft or more behind the rear of my lorry. What I consider an absolute minimum when passing someone is 2ft and then with reduced speed.

[2Tubs]

Congratulations Conor you are the first (only?) one to say he is willing to wait as long as it takes before overtaking. If only the majority of trucks were like that when the wait exceeds ten or fifteen seconds.
In return I will pull over when I get the chance and let you past.

How about my other burning question.

How far back is the cycle you are overtaking when you start pulling back into the left during an overtake?

As long as I can see them, a good 10ft or more behind the rear of my lorry. What I consider an absolute minimum when passing someone is 2ft and then with reduced speed.

And we will play the game too.

I always wave once a truck has passed enough to pull back in.

The other time I wave, rather more franticly in the other directios (while screaming like a banshee) is when they pull inbefore it's safe.

>;o)

Gazza

[Kirst]

The Highway Code also states that you stop at a red traffic light

Does a cyclist ever do that?

I do, and twice in the last few months I have been stopped in the red ASL box at a red light, only to have an HGV whizz past me at speed, missing me by inches and go through the red light. One was a TNT delivery lorry and one was a liveried truck belonging to GSL stairlift company.