Cycling UK Forum

"But at the end of the day, who has the high standard of training and who doesnt?"
It appears this training is sadly failing, once the test is passed, many drivers fall to the pressures upon them.
If not. Why are so many HGVs overtaking me and pulling back in before they have cleared me?

It is a simple point and a specific one. It is so frequent that I can not get a video camera , record it every time and expect the police to deal with every occasion.

If the TV company mentioned in another thread can make their show about HGV cyclist interactions. Then maybee HGV drivers may realise this fact and be a bit more considerate about where and how they overtake.
However it appears the reaction we will get is.
We are better trained than cyclists
We are under pressure, it is a hard job
We must deliver.

None of these answers would have helped you pass the test you are so proud of, would they?

Amazing all these near misses and actual hits on this forum which I'm sure is just a tiny minority of the cycling population therefore a small part of the jigsaw, that theres not multiple deaths of cyclists involving HGV's on a daily basis.

Of course I'm sure theres no one falsely claiming it to make truckers look bad or hugely exagerating it.

I wonder how long these bunch of idiots will last when a huge truck takes them out:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=NyrmWhSDqqQ

Tom Richardson wrote:I don't think thats the problem though - or at least any more than a very very small part of it. I have never seen anyone cycle up the inside of a truck or a bus into the drivers blind spot.

I have more than once. The problem only seems to exist in larger cities. I've been 5-6 inches away from the kerb and looked in my mirrors to see a moron actually leaning their bike over to the left and scooting down the inside only to stop adjacent to my passenger door or just in front of the cab. Not really the best of ideas when the bottom of the glass in the door or windscreen is SEVEN FEET off the ground and therefore completely hides you.

I now make sure I'm so close to the kerb that there's no way their wheels will fit in between my tyres and the kerbstone no matter how much they lean over. Do you think it's reasonable for cyclists to do this?

2Tubs wrote:Recently there was the "prosecution" of a truck driver who was watching DVD's while driving. An act of pure stupidity that could have easily killed. He's still walking the streets. Not much of a book hit him. Read up on that.

Yes, perhaps you should. You'll see that he was a foreign driver in a foreign truck. Likewise the one who was caught eating pasta he'd just cooked whilst driving down the A55.

kwackers wrote:

JaT wrote:
Over the last five years 2 people have been killed whilst on pavements by cycles, in contrast whilst ON pavements 600 have been killed by motor vehicles.

The difference being that the motor vehicles ended up on the pavement as the result of an incident and weren't deliberately using it to drive down....

meic wrote:Wow does 100Kg going at 20mph really scare the hell out of truckies?

Yes, a cyclist does scare the hell out of us. Why?

1) They have a tendency to wander about without regard to what other traffic is doing.
2) They have a tendency to change direction without signalling.
3) They have a tendency to pull out round parked vehicles without bothering to look behind them to see if anything is overtaking them. The HC states to give way to overtaking vehicles BUT YOU HAVE TO CHECK IF THEY'RE THERE FIRST.
4) They tend to be poorly lit. IT IS AN ABSOLUTE NIGHTMARE OVERTAKING CYCLISTS IN THE DARK WHEN THEY'VE NO LIGHTS ON BECAUSE YOU CANNOT SEE WHERE THEY ARE DOWN THE SIDE OF YOUR VEHICLE WHEN YOU ARE PASSING THEM. This is even worse when it's raining. Those flashing green LED front lights some insist on are useless - you might as well not bother.

6) We know that if we hit them because of the moronic things they do above, they're likely to end up dead.

meic wrote:If so why dont they wait until they can overtake at a safe distance?

Because a lot of the time, the road isn't wide enough. My ideal safe distance is at least the other side of the road because it's the only way you can guarantee the wobbling loons won't cycle into you in blind panic as you pass.

Stand on any motorway bridge and watch the carriageway. Not a bicycle in sight. At busy times, many, perhaps a majority of drivers will be so close to the vehicle in front that they will have no chance of stopping safely if it is necessary. Now, you will notice that many of those highly trained lorry drivers are as bad as the car drivers.

I'm sure there are all sorts of reasons for this - pressure of work etc., being among them. Be that as it may, this shows that many of these technically expert people are major league risk takers i.e. psychologically unfit to be in charge of a large vehicle. Since lorry = big and heavy BUT car = small and light, this risk taking is playing with the safety of other people. Not a bicycle in sight.

Conor wrote:

kwackers wrote:
Over the last five years 2 people have been killed whilst on pavements by cycles, in contrast whilst ON pavements 600 have been killed by motor vehicles.

The difference being that the motor vehicles ended up on the pavement as the result of an incident and weren't deliberately using it to drive down....

Actually most end up on the pavement due to a lack of attention. Or due to poor driving skills they clip the kerb and loose control.

I've never seen any evidence that lorry drivers are in anyway better than an average car driver, there are simply less of them.

As people have noted on here, it's difficult to take a lorry driver and his 'road safety' preaching seriously when you see them nose to tail on a motorway.

Ask a typical car driver to take his LGV test and see how many pass. Actually, ask how many car drivers to take their car test again and see how many pass.

As for tailgating, I hate it as much as the next guy.

But to say the standard of lorry drivers is laughable. You saying that means obviously you have no idea what it takes to pass your HGV test. You have to have a medical, pass a harder theory and hazard perception test, then go on to have an extended driving test. It isn't easy. Using theres less of them therefore fewer accidents simply won't wash. A lorry accident is only newsworthy because they're so rare. If they reported on every car accident like they seem to do, all you'd read in the papers is accident after accident.

Most of us have seen car accidents first hand, yet how many of us has ever seen a lorry accident as it's happening? Very few I'd say.

I've noticed that everyone chose to ignore the video I posted. If that had been a motorcyclist, the police would have used all their powers to find and prosecuted him. The cyclists won't even face a fine.

I certainly do not justify any one, cyclist or otherwise squeezing down the inside of a truck. If they take that risk, I think no-one here would condemn the truck driver for what happened to them.

However Conor you really have done my work for me.
You quite clearly state that you intend to overtake when it is not safe and consider the blame is due to the road being too narrow. Not the driver who chooses to overtake when the road is too narrow.

Also when a cycle is going along a road and there is a parked car ahead. Didnt all your training prepare you for the fact that they would go around that car rather than stop behind it and wait for all other traffic to pass.
Only an utter idiot would attempt to overtake ANY vehicle in that situation.

I used to have a respect for the standard of HGV training but it appears that the attitude bit is sadly lacking.

I am glad that people are coming onto this thread from The Professional Drivers' association because it appears that the film really does need to be made. The idea of your progress at whatever cost does need to be challenged.

Ziggy wrote:I've noticed that everyone chose to ignore the video I posted. If that had been a motorcyclist, the police would have used all their powers to find and prosecuted him. The cyclists won't even face a fine.

If they caught up with the cyclist I'm sure there would be a few fines, looked like quite a few red light jumping and on the wrong side of the road. I was trying to work out if it was a police car that pulled out while he was on the wrong side?
Cycle couriers? Is this a case of them being like taxi drivers, thinking the they own the road? Not impressed.

Conor wrote:
Yes, a cyclist does scare the hell out of us. Why?


3) They have a tendency to pull out round parked vehicles without bothering to look behind them to see if anything is overtaking them. The HC states to give way to overtaking vehicles BUT YOU HAVE TO CHECK IF THEY'RE THERE FIRST.

3) They have a tendency to pull out round parked vehicles without bothering to look behind them to see if anything is overtaking them. The HC states to give way to overtaking vehicles BUT YOU HAVE TO CHECK IF THEY'RE THERE FIRST.[/quote]

Rule 162 also states...there is a suitable gap in front of the road user you plan to overtake.
Rule 163 give motorcyclists, cyclists and horse riders at least as much room as you would when overtaking a car (see Rules 211-215)

Rule 163 give way to oncoming vehicles before passing parked vehicles or other obstructions on your side of the road.

Conor, do you mean the cycle you are following down the same road 'suddenly' pulls out past the parked cars that you want to overtake too? The one's you must have had a decent view of high in your cab? Why would you think any road user wouldn't want to get past the obstacle like yourself.
I doubt that any motorist would try to overtake a car at this point, you'd assume the car wanted to make progress.

Is the highway code suggesting that you should have just given way to the cyclist as it was an obstruction to you?

This is where a bit of road sense comes in, like if lorries are signalling to go left they are only going left, but everyone is expected to know that actually they have to pull out and may take up the rest of the right lane to make the turn.
It's a bit of give and take.

meic wrote:
I used to have a respect for the standard of HGV training but it appears that the attitude bit is sadly lacking.

Certainly not as lacking as the current state of affairs on cyclists. No training needed, no licence required, no registration at all and certainly no insurance is compulsory.

The state of training at least which I undertook with Van Hee was nothing short of first class. I'd certainly claim without a doubt that my road knowledge far surpasses the vast majority of cyclists.

Coffee wrote: I was trying to work out if it was a police car that pulled out while he was on the wrong side?

It was a British School of Motoring car.

The 'blind spot' seems to be a major killer in cycle/lorry 'collision' (the inquests I've read seem to accept that it happens and no ones fault)
I wonder if the sensors down the side of the truck would help alert the driver to check before pulling off or while driving along and more education in a campaign about cyclists at least giving themselves a fighting chance by being in a visible position to the driver's mirrors. 'If you can't see my mirrors I have no chance of seeing you' Or even sensors beeping at the cyclist too?

I've never driven a HGV so I don't know and I'm asking....when you pull away from a junction is it possible to physically look out the window and check what else is in that space you are about to pull out into? I can appreciate it's probably a limited view.

I imagine, only going on road signals, if you see a lorry signalling to turn left you don't expect them to move right before hand.
A bit of education and safety devices would hopefully cut down deaths due to inexperience or being human not paying attention, not checking.

There seems to be a major complacency about 'blind spots'.

Maybe if both sensors and a campaign about how lorry drivers move off at junctions, blind spots, how cyclists should position themselves, Mel wouldn't have been killed.
http://www.towncriertoday.co.uk/stives/Cyclist-tragedy-was-34accidental34.3700098.jp

Ziggy wrote:

meic wrote:

Coffee wrote: I was trying to work out if it was a police car that pulled out while he was on the wrong side?

It was a British School of Motoring car.

Good job for the cyclist!

(Thanks, I have a rubbish monitor.)