How about some consideration from cyclists from other road users then?
Have you ever considered that a lorry has 44 tonnes of mass to stop and then get moving again?
How does that equate to your green and healthy lifestyle when the fumes and emissions it takes to restart are breathed in by all and sundry?
Perhaps just a 2 second stop for you could get rid of this for everyone and allow the traffic to keep moving?
Wouldn't it be far more considerate, polite and safer in the long run?
Or is courtesy, and safety not really the issue here?
Maybe this is more about asserting your rights to use the road, at all times, at all costs, even though you are not taxed to do so. You do not contribute to their upkeep, you don't have any kind of test on you as a rider or your bike as a 'vehicle'.
Pat
Cyclist-HGV incidents
PDAPAT.
Welcome to the forum, The more of you that come, the more chance we have of getting the message home
Of course most cyclists stop at red lights, any that dont should get the appropriate prosecution and penalty, same goes for all other vehicles
I personally see many more motor vehicles going through red than I do cycles, I guess it depends who you look for.
As a rule of thumb I will have 3 vehicles overtake me after I have put out my right arm to indicate before I can get to the middle of the road, then I may have another 3 go past my arm before I can turn. They are normally playing follow the one in front.
When do you pull back to the left during overtaking?
Congratulations on spotting a vehicle overtaking you when turning right. Very impressive training, funny the rest of us learn that pretty quickly without training and do it as routine. Then again we are not safely wrapped in tonnes of steel.
Welcome to the forum, The more of you that come, the more chance we have of getting the message home
Of course most cyclists stop at red lights, any that dont should get the appropriate prosecution and penalty, same goes for all other vehicles
I personally see many more motor vehicles going through red than I do cycles, I guess it depends who you look for.
As a rule of thumb I will have 3 vehicles overtake me after I have put out my right arm to indicate before I can get to the middle of the road, then I may have another 3 go past my arm before I can turn. They are normally playing follow the one in front.
When do you pull back to the left during overtaking?
Congratulations on spotting a vehicle overtaking you when turning right. Very impressive training, funny the rest of us learn that pretty quickly without training and do it as routine. Then again we are not safely wrapped in tonnes of steel.
Yma o Hyd
Most of my incidents are the hill out of my village. I would be happy to pull over to the side for a while however I am not given a chance to do so.
By the time I reach any available space the following vehicles have passed me.
On a few occasions I have been followed patiently and do stop at the first opportunity. Then wave to the foreign truck driver as he passes me.
I now see a shift in emphasis in the postings.
Now it is more that cyclists should get out of your way, admitting that the overtakes are not being done safely afterall.
So how do you punish naughty cyclists who dont pay road tax and dare to cycle on the bit of road you want.
Maybee you pull into the left before you have actually passed them?
By the time I reach any available space the following vehicles have passed me.
On a few occasions I have been followed patiently and do stop at the first opportunity. Then wave to the foreign truck driver as he passes me.
I now see a shift in emphasis in the postings.
Now it is more that cyclists should get out of your way, admitting that the overtakes are not being done safely afterall.
So how do you punish naughty cyclists who dont pay road tax and dare to cycle on the bit of road you want.
Maybee you pull into the left before you have actually passed them?
Yma o Hyd
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thirdcrank
- Posts: 36740
- Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm
Ziggy wrote:Anything can be regulated.
Like trucks tail gating and using mobile phones? Doesn't look like it does it?
So you're saying that bikes don't have the ability to kill?
I think whatever the weight (you're forgetting the rider combined too) any vehicle is capable of injury or death.
That's true, but I've never seen a bicycle take out a family of six.
I can't remember saying that, oh wait I didn't. I did say that a bike has the ability of being as dangerous on the road as any vehicle
That's correct you didn't - I've highlighted the relevant section of my original quote to help you. Hope you pay more attention when you're driving...
kwackers wrote:(I'm obviously going to ignore your comrades ill informed and unsubstantiated remarks about cyclists being the most dangerous vehicles on the road.)
Oh - here's the original quote I was referring to.
In any congested City by far the most dangerous road user is the push bike
I agree, I also think cyclists should be aware they're more of a danger to other road users than they seem to give themselves credit for too.
The road accident figures just don't back you up though do they?
pdapat wrote:Indeed, the highway code requires as much.
The danger for the cyclist is in actually believing that all these "well trained and professional" drivers will actually follow the highway code.
The Highway Code also requires that you slow down when being overtaken
Does a cyclist ever do that?
We have to, if we are to survive the cretins who don't complete the overtake before pulling back in - a high proportion of whom are overtaking in an unsafe location and manner in the first place.
The problem seems to be that most motorists don't regard cycles as vehicles, and don't follow safe procedures for overtaking them.
The Highway Code also states that you stop at a red traffic light
Does a cyclist ever do that?
Mostly, yes.
unlike all the motorists who seem to think it's fine to cross the stop line into the ASL box, or shoot through quickly because it only just went red.
I'm a lorry driver and I was waiting at a busy road junction to turn right last week.
I had my right hand indicator flashing and was trying to find a big enough gap in the traffic.
When I eventually found one I started to move off but my excellent training and professionalism made me check my mirrors.
What a good job I did
There was a cyclist three quarters of the way down the offside of my trailer.
The highway code also recommends that you respect signals and other road users
Yes, it seems like that cyclist was being pretty daft, so I would not condone that.
I do find that road positioning surprising, but then isn't that what the rear observation before turning is designed to catch?
It just shows that you are one of the competent drivers, who we do NOT have any problem with.
Respecting signals would be far easier if more people actually gave them, and remembered to cancel them afterwards.
And of course ensured that they were working properly and clean enough to see (a particular problem with lights on semi-trailers).
I imagine that as a good driver, you will do, but the problem is all the ones that don't, and the fact that it's impossible to tell what kind of driver you may be from just encountering you on the road.
The good driver will always assume that the rest are incompetent idiots who are out to kill them - that way there's no unfortunate surprises.
The cyclist you mention obviously was less than ideal in that respect, but then he hardly posed you any physical threat, unlike the reverse situation.
And while I'm at it, why not stick to the cycle lanes we provide for your safety too?
Maybe because so many of them are in such dangerous locations?
Or are you actually above using those
Pat
I'll use the ones that are safe to use, otherwise I'll use the main carriageway, just as I'm legally entitled to.
Unfortunately, so many of the cycle lanes are dangerously sited that the best use of them is as an indication of where NOT to cycle.
How about some consideration from cyclists from other road users then?
We have to - it's the only way we stay alive.
Have you ever considered that a lorry has 44 tonnes of mass to stop and then get moving again?
And have you considered that you have several hundred times the power available to do so?
Even the fittest riders can only manage continuous output of around half a horsepower, but that's at the elite professional level - most casual (i.e. non-enthusiast) riders would be lucky to manage a quarter of that.
How does that equate to your green and healthy lifestyle when the fumes and emissions it takes to restart are breathed in by all and sundry?
Perhaps just a 2 second stop for you could get rid of this for everyone and allow the traffic to keep moving?
Ah yes - "give way to me or I'll gas you", or "I'm bigger so I should get right of way, even when the law says otherwise" - I'm wondering if my judgement of your driving was all that good.
Wouldn't it be far more considerate, polite and safer in the long run?
Or is courtesy, and safety not really the issue here?
Well, it's hardly courteous to bully your way through because you're heavier, is it?
And as far as safety is concerned, how many truckers have ever been injured by cyclists?
It's far more reasonable to expect truck drivers to have some familiarity with the needs of a cyclist than the reverse, isn't it?
Maybe this is more about asserting your rights to use the road, at all times, at all costs, even though you are not taxed to do so.
We pay the same tax any any other low emission vehicle does.
And are you saying you have some kind of problem with our right to use the road?
If you're going to bring up the RIGHT to the road, I'm afraid you're bringing a knife to a gunfight. We actually DO have the right, whereas motorised vehicles only have a privilege, which can be revoked.
You do not contribute to their upkeep, you don't have any kind of test on you as a rider or your bike as a 'vehicle'.
Ah, that strawman again.
You seem to be under the mistaken impression that VED pays for the roads. I doubt if it even covers the NHS costs of motor vehicle use.
I contribute through taxes, just like everyone else does - even children, since they pay VAT like the rest of us.
If there's any major group that doesn't, it would be all the foreign truckers driving over here in vehicles not safely designed for the uk, paying no uk taxes, and having no uk training.
Coffee wrote:....this is a wind up thread, isn't it?
Good init?
After years of considering them all to be decent bed fellows, we finally have some indication of their true colours.
Truckers don't like us, they object to having to look out for us, we don't pay road tax, we're ignorant of road traffic rules, we don't get out of the way of them etc etc.
One can't help but wonder if they're not just a little embarrassed at the number of cyclists they squash and are trying to shift the blame...
There are very few cyclists around here I would be lucky to see even one other cyclist during the day. I do however see lots more motor vehicles and as a consequence I see lots more go through red lights. Simple and TRUE.
Yet again the words you type are wrong, I am starting to get used to this.
Now your comment about me staying in is strangely true.
On quite a few occasions the truck (or car) who was overtaking me in a dangerous place has not got back over to the left quick enough for the safety of the oncoming cars. So indirectly I have caused their lives to be endangered and I fear it is only a matter of time before either I or they get hurt.
Sometimes the oncoming vehicles are HGVs who have little chance of stopping quickly on that hill.
On the other hand there are regular crashes on that stretch of road and not one so far has included a cyclist.
Yet again the words you type are wrong, I am starting to get used to this.
Now your comment about me staying in is strangely true.
On quite a few occasions the truck (or car) who was overtaking me in a dangerous place has not got back over to the left quick enough for the safety of the oncoming cars. So indirectly I have caused their lives to be endangered and I fear it is only a matter of time before either I or they get hurt.
Sometimes the oncoming vehicles are HGVs who have little chance of stopping quickly on that hill.
On the other hand there are regular crashes on that stretch of road and not one so far has included a cyclist.
Yma o Hyd
kwackers wrote:Coffee wrote:....this is a wind up thread, isn't it?
Good init?
After years of considering them all to be decent bed fellows, we finally have some indication of their true colours.
Truckers don't like us, they object to having to look out for us, we don't pay road tax, we're ignorant of road traffic rules, we don't get out of the way of them etc etc.
One can't help but wonder if they're not just a little embarrassed at the number of cyclists they squash and are trying to shift the blame...
Actually, I have found on riding in faster moving traffic it is the lorry drivers that give more space, certainly along the A14. The one's that didn't, you notice being pulled along the road by their drag.
Down normal country roads with a path I do tend to jump up on the path if the road is narrow and a lorry is stuck behind me because I'm slower and there are double white lines in the middle of the road, if someone has slowed down and obey road markings rather than skim past me I'm more inclined to help them out, even though it's not required to in the HWC. One actually gave me a nice beep beep and indicator thank you.
I've had the road tax abuse and offered violence from car drivers.
I've seen no red light jumpers in st.Ives and Huntingdon, seen plenty of car drivers do it, especially on the evening of the world cup. I cycle every other day on average. I have seen a cycle red light jumper pretty much on every red in Cambridge though.
Lets not get wound up and judge by a bad few....on both sides!
Last edited by Coffee on 26 Oct 2008, 9:47pm, edited 2 times in total.
Coffee wrote:Actually, I have found on riding in faster moving traffic it is the lorry drivers that give more space, certainly along the A14. The one's that didn't, you notice being pulled along the road by their drag.
Down normal country roads with a path I do tend to jump up on the path if the road is narrow and a lorry is stuck behind me because I'm slower and there are double white lines in the middle of the road, if someone has slowed down and obey road markings rather than skim past me I'm more inclined to help them out, even though it's not required to in the HWC. One actually gave me a nice beep beep and indicator thank you.
Lets not get wound up and judge by a bad few....on both sides!
I agree entirely, in my experience most are spot on. But as with any forum topic we have a couple spouting disinformation and using a examples of a few bad riders to justify their position.
Hopefully no one is getting wound up, nor is there likely to be any resolution.
Another poster on these forums once quoted Galbraith and it's on threads such as this one that his words hold more true than ever...
Galbraith wrote:Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof.