Cycling UK Forum

Hi there all,
I was involved in a road rage incident on my way to work this week, It was really frightening.
I was on a narrow road and approaching a crossroads where I wanted to turn left. As usual, a number of cars overtook me but this time there was an unuasually long stationary queue. So as I normally do I passed the line down the middle of the road. There was room, nothing coming the other way, it was safe. But approaching the head of the queue it dawned on me that because they were all bumper to bumper, there was nowhere for me to pull in. So I found myself at the head of the queue in an exposed position. As the first car went off, I cautiously followed, clearly indicating left and taking the bend wide. Fortunately the second driver hung back and I was soon able to pull over once I was on the major road. Loads of cars went past, but about 200yds later this driver pulls alongside and only inches from me hurls this tirade of abuse at me then slams his foot down and screams away. Quite atypically for me, I feel that a 'balanced exchange' is in order and give him 'the finger', but understated. Well about 30 yds away brake lights come on, stops and out he jumps. Now there's no way I'm trying to slip past or get close, so I come to a stop in the primary position, get off bike, carefully lay it behind me and just stand there squarely trying to look as big as possible. Well there is quite an audience, because I am now stopping the traffic, probably the one thing that prevented an escalation. He stood by his car hurling the most disgusting and agressive gutter abuse at me. I said nothing but tried to visualise the moves that I practised in Ki Akido all those years ago. Well there was no way I was going to leave my bike so I beckoned him to come to me, Matrix style. Well he just shouted, "I'm going to f****** report you" and drives off. Although I was trying to remain calm and controlled, inside I was all a panic, all I had was the name of the company, a local builders. Having arrived at work, I rang the Police and that afternoon I was giving my statement to a very nice WPC. It was highly distasteful to have to repeat everything that he shouted, I suppose I should be grateful that he did not use the c-word.

Well the following morning I had checked that my mobile phone was to hand. As I had feared on approaching the scene, I saw a van matching the same description on the verge, I could not be sure it was him, but it was a bit of a coincidence. So I rang 999 straight away and reported the matter, pressing the point of how afraid I was. Well nobody approached me and during the call the van drove off. I am now waiting for the Police to contact me, they have the name of the company and a description of the person. I shall be keeping my eyes open this following week in case I see the van again, I need a reg No.
Not sure if I should get out early and wait at a busy place to see if he goes by so that I can get the number. Any thoughts anyone?

Alan

Alan
When you beckoned the offending driver toward you, was you wearing a full length leather coat and mirrored sunglasses?,coz I find one has a lot more "presence".

Don't bother!

I find these incidents are annoying and frustrating, but if you cannot act atthe time then there is little point in worrying about it unless something recurs. As second incident and you report it to the Police as an "event"

Stating something along the lines of "He did the same thing last week, byt I gave him the benefit of doubt, now I am concerned" is a stronger position to report from.

Besides which I think you were mistaken - you didn't "give him the finger" you were pointing - if he mistook that for an aggressive gesture then it is even more of a worry!

If nothing else happens, then reflect upon the situation... learn from the episode and apply the lessons to your riding.

There are far too many nutters around to ever risk escalating something like this. If someone is aggressive, I won't respond and will look for a way to put distance between us.

Apart from anything else, some ****er shouts the odds and you'll have forgotten about it in five minutes; get into any kind of confrontation and it'll bother you for far longer, as you've seen.

Ben

Alan D

A couple of things stuck out for me when I read this. First, bearing in mind the usual frustration expressed on here at getting the police to take any sort of interest in this kind of thing, what's your secret?

Secondly, "give him 'the finger.'" I had to google Matrix (for me it means motorway warning signs and Cherie Blair's chambers. ) I take it that you gestured the other party to 'come down here if you think you're hard enough' even though you were thinking about a change of undies.

The advice from Cunobelin and Ben is very sound (although easier said than done in the heat of the moment.) Incidentally, they do say that honesty is the best policy and changing something in a written statement is to be treated with a lot of circumspection.

The centuries old provisions for preventative justice were changed when the European Court or similar ruled that the bind-over order infringed human rights (which is one reason why the ASBO was invented.) This is the sort of thing which if it gets to court gets very short shrift. It is often neighbour disputes where one side or the other starts a private prosecution as the result of the police declining to get involved. Once upon a time, even if your baddy were to be convicted of something here, such as threatening behaviour, when they had weighed him off, you would have been invited to come forward and then asked if there was any reason why you should not be bound over to keep the Peace*. (Even the chance to put forward reasons why not was something of a latter day concession.) I have seen people who refused to be bound over committed to prison until they changed their mind, although I have never seen a case where the warrant was signed quicker than the change of mind.

In short just imagine how a couple of independent witnesses might have described this. Bearing in mind all the hype about anti-social behaviour, consider how a court might see this.

You asked for advice and I would say, remember that if you do react as you did, you risk losing the option of being able to get official redress.

* Capital letter because it is the Queen's Peace.

Some things strike me as rather odd.......

o Cycling up the middle of the road when you are planning to turn left? Very poor positioning in my view.

o You say you were experiencing road rage?
- yet you 'gave him the finger?
- and you invited the driver over?

Some of these companies may have several vehicles of the same colour and style so I think you could end up shooting yourself in the foot is you try and get a reg number now. It it happens to be a different van they may be in a position to be able to prove that van wasn't in the vicinity on the day in question, which could blow your credibility out of the water! Let it drop and try not to retaliate next time - the potential repurcussions are just not worth it?

Nigel

adinigel wrote:Some things strike me as rather odd.......

o Cycling up the middle of the road when you are planning to turn left? Very poor positioning in my view.

Nigel

Nigel ,how do you position yourself,

if im turning left or right in a single lane, i always travel up on the left of vehicles, and use my arm to signal and i always seem to be given priority if im turning right(in front of a left turning car), but i always thank the driver,

I always ignore drivers that give abuse, it just goes over my head, i just can't outrun them on the bike !!

Anything said in the heat of the moment on a road needs to be backed up solidly with an intention to physically fight someone if it gets bad.

If you're not prepared to brawl over the matter, then don't use the finger or shout abuse because some nutter will stop and get out and really want a fight over it. Ive been followed by a car on my motorcycle after shouting at a driver who had been tailgating me badly. He actually followed me into the service road of the flats I used to live at. I drove right out again and he followed me until I managed to drive into a park and lose him! I waved bye-bye, of course

One day, that van driver will hurl abuse at someone and they'll pull up, get off their bike, open his door and smash the living daylights out of him. If that's not going to be your job, then best left alone, in my opinion.

I'm not a violent person, so I have learned now that any verbals or signage or car slapping should be avoided because it can be as affective as "asking someone outside" while in a pub.

I hate the seething feeling one gets when something like this happens.

"so I come to a stop in the primary position, get off bike, carefully lay it behind me and just stand there squarely..."




Sorry - but in this situation you just let go of your biggest arguement.

Arthur

As a choleric, vengeful, sedentary driver he's got huge health problems in store ahead of him.

As a cyclist you're likely to be fit, active and enjoying life well after he's had his first coronary bypass op.

Time is a great leveller.

martinwf5 wrote:

adinigel wrote:Some things strike me as rather odd.......

o Cycling up the middle of the road when you are planning to turn left? Very poor positioning in my view.

Nigel

Nigel ,how do you position yourself,

If I am going to turn left I position on the left and if I am going to turn right I position to the right. I teach the same. Our position gives as much information about our intentions as any signal.

Nigel

Ovetaking stationery queues by going down the middle of the road is generally safer than trying to squeeze through on the left, so your positioning sounds fine to me.
Like others I think you're best not to get sucked into escalation - it rarely works out well.

minkie wrote:Ovetaking stationery queues by going down the middle of the road is generally safer than trying to squeeze through on the left, so your positioning sounds fine to me.
Like others I think you're best not to get sucked into escalation - it rarely works out well.

Without checking, I don't remember any anything in the Highway Code or the National Standards/Bikeability documentation that advises such positioning.

Well you haven't convinced me to pass a queue on the right when I am going to turn left. You could easily end up stranded with nowhere to go!

Consequently I will continue to advise positioning on the left to turn left and right to turn right.

Nigel

I guess we all have examples of this, mine was to say "not the brightest place to park lads" to a group of teens in the middle of the road atop a steep (1:10 plus) hill, only have them overtake me and brake as I sped downhill at 40 mph, almost ploughing into back of them I was shaken up. So was I in the wrong for pointing out standing atop a blind summit was not bright? Clearly according to them. Were they wrong in their actions - too damn right they could have killed me. Can I do anything about it? no, so I suggest letting go. Acting like Rambo isn't going to do our cause nor yours any good. Time and illness will see you outlive morons

adinigel wrote:

minkie wrote:Ovetaking stationery queues by going down the middle of the road is generally safer than trying to squeeze through on the left, so your positioning sounds fine to me.
Like others I think you're best not to get sucked into escalation - it rarely works out well.

Without checking, I don't remember any anything in the Highway Code or the National Standards/Bikeability documentation that advises such positioning.

Well you haven't convinced me to pass a queue on the right when I am going to turn left. You could easily end up stranded with nowhere to go!

Consequently I will continue to advise positioning on the left to turn left and right to turn right.

Nigel

Nigel:
How do you advise cyclists to deal with a long queue of stationery traffic when they want to turn left some distance ahead?
Creep up the left hand gap between cars and pavement?
Just join the queue and be patient?