Diy Oil Port on new Sa hubs?

abradleyInf · Post by **abradleyInf** » 11 Nov 2008, 12:35pm

Would it be a good idea to add an oil port to new SA hubs?

AtoB suggest oiling by removing indicator chain and pouring in light oil here.

rogerzilla · Post by **rogerzilla** » 11 Nov 2008, 8:35pm

I've done this for you, so you don't have to.

I removed the innards from a new S-RF3, drilled and tapped the shell and fitted a plastic oiler. Then I carefully degreased and reassembled the mechanism, adding 10ml of oil.

Result: it wees oil everywhere from the ball ring race, because this has been redesigned with its plastic combined seal/ball cage and is no longer even vaguely oil-tight. Back to grease.

abradleyInf · Post by **abradleyInf** » 12 Nov 2008, 1:06pm

Thanks.

Bean counters are annoying:

saving 0.0000001 of pence on the oil port means they have now removed the SA labyrinth seal. Grrrrrrrrrr.

rogerzilla · Post by **rogerzilla** » 12 Nov 2008, 2:48pm

The labyrinth seals on the cones are still there (and interchangeable with 1930s parts as far as I can see). It's the ball ring arrangement that's changed - the old ones had an inner dust cap which snapped over the 24 loose balls in their race, then an outer chromed dust cap covered it all up. The new ones have a black plastic call cage which doubles up as a one-piece dust seal.

You may be able to wedge AW internals into a modern S-RF3 shell, then you can run it on oil, but unless it's a very recent AW, it won't be N.I.G. and you'll have the infamous neutral between normal and top.

MLJ · Post by **MLJ** » 12 Nov 2008, 3:13pm

Hubgears can be oiled through the indicator rod hole - just take the rod out and run a few drops in occasionally.

hubgearfreak · Post by **hubgearfreak** » 12 Nov 2008, 3:15pm

rogerzilla wrote:Result: it wees oil everywhere from the ball ring race, because this has been redesigned with its plastic combined seal/ball cage and is no longer even vaguely oil-tight. Back to grease.

does this mean that it's partly full of oil, like a car engine?
wont the planet gears distribute the oil around all else in use?

rogerzilla · Post by **rogerzilla** » 12 Nov 2008, 6:38pm

IME a classic SA hub retains a little "free" oil, about a teaspoonful, in the shell. The rest is stuck to the internals. Really old hubs with a threaded LH ball ring may lose more, because the ball ring threads will seep oil even if the level inside is minimal.

When I reassembled my AM-in-an-AW-shell at the weekend I put a twist of PTFE tape on the RH ball ring threads, which wasn't an option in 1939. It actually seems to have stopped leakage almost completely - there is no oil on the rim at all after 40 miles.

abradleyInf · Post by **abradleyInf** » 13 Nov 2008, 12:56pm

Rogerzilla, would the oil leak at at acceptable rate out if the hub was oiled via the indicator chain portal?

I presume your new 3 speed leaks so badly an oil port is pointless.

rogerzilla · Post by **rogerzilla** » 13 Nov 2008, 4:53pm

It still ends up in the shell with everything else, so would leak just the same. Of course, if you only put enough in to form a film on the internals, it won't leak much at all, but SA used to recommend two teaspoonfuls (10ml), which is a fair bit more than needed just to form a film.

abradleyInf · Post by **abradleyInf** » 14 Nov 2008, 2:21pm

I have the sunrace 5 speed internals, which seemed to be all metal, so I suppose oiling should be OK, and if I was to replace it, I suppose I could look for an old 3 speed.

rogerzilla · Post by **rogerzilla** » 15 Nov 2008, 1:48pm

Oil leak problem solved...my drilled, oil-ported SRF3 shell now has AM medium-ratio internals. A 1930s mechanism will go into a 2000s alloy shell

There's less axle overhang on the right than on a proper Brompton hub, but as the AM has a through indicator and visual adjustment of the cable is at the left, it doesn't matter that the RH end of the axle isn't in the "porthole" of the guide nut. In fact, a proper AM RH guide nut has no porthole.

Cyclenut · Post by **Cyclenut** » 15 Nov 2008, 3:32pm

I've recently fitted a new, upgraded dustcap and seal assembly to the Shimano premium 8-speed on my daughter's college bike. Fortunately I seem to have got to it before any rusting ocurred behind the notoriously leak-prone original "seal".

Anyway: it looks to me like this hub ought to hold its oil okay, espeicially if a bead of sealant were applied around the outer edge of this seal before pressing it into the hubshell.

The shell is alloy, so it's just a matter of withdrawing the internals to find a suitable location for drilling where the possible internal protrusion of an oiler won't interfere with anything. Given that Shimano recommend servicing this hub by dipping the internals in oil: constantly bathing them in the stuff ought to be even better!

Next time she brings the bike home I'll have to look into that.

rogerzilla · Post by **rogerzilla** » 15 Nov 2008, 6:10pm

Sturmey oiler threads are so shallow that (unless Shimano are using unusually thin shells) they won't protrude internally, so you can drill pretty much where you like. I did carefully sand the interior of my SRF3 shell with wet and dry, but that was just to remove any burrs from drilling.

The metal Sturmey oilers look nice, but aren't oil-tight

The white plastic screw-in ones are what you want - the black plastic ones press tightly into a hexagonal hole, which you probably can't make at home.

wallyone · Post by **wallyone** » 16 Nov 2008, 9:01am

Someone told me, and the general run of this thread is, that the new and old parts are generally interchangable. My question is this; can't you simply put new gearing in an old shell saving the trouble of drilling and fitting an oiler? I've only had experience of older British types where pretty much anything could be swapped.

rogerzilla · Post by **rogerzilla** » 16 Nov 2008, 9:19am

Everything fits together correctly*, but there is one possible pitfall. The low-gear pawls have been completely redesigned on the SRF3 and the ratchet teeth on the LH ball ring are now finer. The "old" pawls are bigger and stick out of the (larger) planet cage at a less acute angle, although they are still the same width and their extended diameter is certainly enough to engage with the new-style ratchet.

I'll report back when I've tried to ride up a steep hill in low gear. I think it will be fine, based on preliminary experiments with a chainwhip. Whether it works the other way round - well, I don't know.

The LH ball ring just knocks out on any hub made in the last few decades, so can be replaced too.

*except on early shells with screw-in oilers, which won't take a later RH ball ring and also have a screw-in LH ball ring. Early internals will, however, go in a later shell with a push-fit oiler.