STI / V brakes / Van Nic ctd.

[minkie]

I have a 6-month old Van Nicholas Amazon tourer with Shimano STI R700 shifters and Campagnolo linear pull cantilever brakes. This works ok so long as the wheel is perfectly true and there's no mud on the roads, otherwise the lack of clearance between brake block and rim causes problems.

I’m still at the learning stage, so bought the bike from a reputable builder and accepted his recommendations on areas I don’t know about. (apart from this the dealer did a great job so I don’t want to be over critical).

However, I now know from this forum that STI / V is a bad combo.

I read from other posts and CJ’s write-up that the way forward is to swop the V brakes for Tektro CR720s. Was all set to get on with it but now a couple of people with the same frame as mine posted problems with fork judder when using these brakes.

I’d appreciate views on whether these are likely to be isolated incidents or a wider problem that I’m likely to hit too?

Thanks.

[Paul Smith SRCC]

I have a 6-month old Van Nicholas Amazon tourer with Shimano STI R700 shifters and Campagnolo linear pull cantilever brakes. This works ok so long as the wheel is perfectly true and there's no mud on the roads, otherwise the lack of clearance between brake block and rim causes problems.

I’m still at the learning stage, so bought the bike from a reputable builder and accepted his recommendations on areas I don’t know about. (apart from this the dealer did a great job so I don’t want to be over critical).

However, I now know from this forum that STI / V is a bad combo.

I read from other posts and CJ’s write-up that the way forward is to swop the V brakes for Tektro CR720s. Was all set to get on with it but now a couple of people with the same frame as mine posted problems with fork judder when using these brakes.

I’d appreciate views on whether these are likely to be isolated incidents or a wider problem that I’m likely to hit too?

Thanks.

There is a device called a Travel Agent that "allows use of non-linear pull brake lever with any linear pull brake caliper. Great for touring or cyclocross aplications with road STI of Ergo levers. Can double the cable travel for any brake lever or simply be used as a roller with out changing cable travel to replace the noodle on linear pull brakes".

Alternatively you can replace the linear pull calipers for a non linear pull model, as the converters mentioned above are still a compromise, never as good as a compatible lever and caliper, a common choice on the Van Nicholas Amazon is the Shimano R550 cantilever brake, the Tektro CR720s are also an option as stated, that is what I would actually recommend you do over the converters; do not leave it as it is that's for sure.

I am not familiar with those calipers, but they seem to only be compatible with their Ergopower™ Flat Bar Controls as they quote "We have developed linear-pull cantilever brakes for use with the specific version of dedicated Flat Bar controls" so they would therefore not work with normal drop bar levers, although if I recall there was talk that they would do, so this may have confused the dealer with what would have been back then a new product. As it is only six months old I would take it back to them, no doubt they will put it right for you.

Paul_Smith

[MartinC]

The Campag linear brakes are mini-V's with an arm length of 85mm. I run them on my Trek T520 with STI's without any clearance or adjustment problems. My guess is that the height of the pads above the bosses is crucial to the geometry and the pad movement/cable pull ratio.

If it doesn't work for the OP then the other choices are:

Use cantis - you may have to experiment with type, pads, hangers to get good braking without judder. In my experience BR550's aren't very powerful but with cantis everything depends on set up.

Use travel agents. I bought some of these but went to mini-V's instead. The sharp bend in the cable put me off a bit and they would've fouled on the rack fittings at the rear. But they may work for you.

Lose the STI's. Use Cane Creek/Tektro V Brake Drop Bar levers and DT or Bar End shifters.

Good luck, hope this helps.

[Paul Smith SRCC]

The Campag linear brakes are mini-V's with an arm length of 85mm. I run them on my Trek T520 with STI's without any clearance or adjustment problems. My guess is that the height of the pads above the bosses is crucial to the geometry and the pad movement/cable pull ratio.....

That's intersting to note that it works with what appears to be a similar set up' is definetly worth investigating further, especially as it it confirms what I thought I had heard at the time, that even though these were linear pull calipers they would work with standard non linear pull drop bar levers.

I confess the only time I tried mini-V's on my own bike I didn't get on with them to the extent that I converted the bike to run with dual pivot calipers when the bike was re enamelled (by removing canti' bosses and dropping the rear bridge, the forks were OK as they were interms of caliper depth), although that was over 10 years ago, mini-V's are indeed better than they were.

Paul_Smith

[MartinC]

Paul, I think it's really critical where the brake pads are relative to the bosses.

When I changed my T520 to STI's I tried to work out the parameters.

There's about 25mm of vertical adjustment in the slot of a typical V Brake arm. I remember measuring where on the arms the pads were and how much cable the sti's pulled. Then sitting down and doing the geometry to calculate what the pad movement would be be. I'm not sure I still have the figures. I do recall there was 15mm of cable pull. The pads were quite near the top of the adjustment slots. I do remember there was a significant difference in pad movement between pads at the top of the slots versus pads at the bottom.

[MartinC]

Oh, and another thing! I think having good adjusters is important. I used the noodle adjusters that were with the Dia Compe V Brake levers in the original set up.

Using Travel Agents can provide this too.

[Mister W]

I've got a selection of brakes on my winter bikes and can tell you that.......

Full size V brakes don't work well with sti levers. The levers don't pull enough cable.

Avid Shorty cantis work very well with sti levers but are a bit fiddly to set up.

Tektro mini-V brakes work very well with sti levers and are easier to set up than cantis.