Cycling UK Forum

My friend and I are looking to explore some of the WW1 battlefied sites.
We;re obvioulsy looking at Flanders or the Somme.
I've been to Flanders a couple of times, and know it pretty well, but I've never been to the Somme.
Anyone here been to both who can tell me which is a riche WW1 experience?
I get the feeling from what I've read that Flanders has more remaining from the war such as trench systems, bunkers etc, but is perhaps not as nice looking as the Somme. Also, I understand accomadation can be a bit more problematic on the Somme, as the towns tend to smaller and less geared to tourists.
is that acurate?

Gotte wrote:My friend and I are looking to explore some of the WW1 battlefied sites.
We;re obvioulsy looking at Flanders or the Somme.
I've been to Flanders a couple of times, and know it pretty well, but I've never been to the Somme.
Anyone here been to both who can tell me which is a riche WW1 experience?
I get the feeling from what I've read that Flanders has more remaining from the war such as trench systems, bunkers etc, but is perhaps not as nice looking as the Somme. Also, I understand accomadation can be a bit more problematic on the Somme, as the towns tend to smaller and less geared to tourists.
is that acurate?

The scenery around the Somme is quite nice. It is an extensive area and I wasn't specifically looking for battlefield sites when I cycled through the area the year before last. It is quite an open areas and if memory serves me well, is as you've described. I think I wild camped one night as I found myself in the unusual position of being in a town/village without a campsite of any description nearby. I visited a range of war cemeteries and found the experience very emotional. It also brought it home to me that Germans, French and a whole range of French colonials died in the war as up to that point I'd only ever seen reference to the Commonwealth war cemeteries.

I can not comment on Flanders never been there.

I would suggest the Flanders option - there's much more "signposted" WW stuff than there is in the Somme area ... and lots of small museums. some are almost "family businesses" and are very quaint.

If you Google for some of the wartime "package holidays" (yes, there are such things) you'll get some ideas

Rob

Thanks for that. Much appreciated.

To choose one over the other is difficult. Flanders is more concentrated as the fighting took place on a fairly static front throughout the war wheras the Somme was a far larger fighting area. Also the choice leaves ou the area between these two areas, Ploegsteert, Armentieres. Loos, Vimy Ridge and Arras, all areas of interest and worth visiting. And that leaves out the Verdun/Argonne area and Chemin des Dames/ Aisne front and Vosges areas. Again all very interesting.
If you go to Flanders check out the Croonaert area with recently "recovered" German trench systems. A certain Adolf Hitler won his Iron Cross in this area. http://battlefields1418.50megs.com/croonaert_wood.htm.

Thanks for that. Great info. I'd love to visit all the places you mention, but unfortunately, we;ll probably only have nine or ten days at most, and so we have to pick and choose. I've been to Flanders a few times, though not cycling, which is why I;m interested in knowing what the SOmme is like. Having seen Flanders, I like the idea of visiting somewhere new, but that said, it's a bit of an unknown quantity, and wouldn't like to waste those precious days cycling through an area that potentially has much less left from WW1.

I had a brilliant time on a tour of the Ypres salient in May this year.We crossed from Dover to Dunkerque using Norfolk Line then got to our base at Ypres by following canals from the Dunkerque are to Bergues ( a beautiful Vauban fortified town) then across the Belgian border through Poperinghe into Ypres.
As soon as you hit Belgium you hit your first proper cycle lane and you begin to notice that traffic gives way to bicycles on cycle lanes at roundabouts.It's quite unnerving when it first happens but it's great when you get used to it.
Ypres is a fantastic town with good reasonably priced b+bs and plenty of places to eat and drink.It also has a nice campsite.
The Ypres salient is very compact and it's simple to get to everything by bicycle. You also see far more than you do from a car or a coach.We cycled along a canal out of Ypres following the front line past Essex Farm dressing Station, then moved on through Langemarck and up to Passchendaele on very gentle gradients and on cycle paths or quiet roads and tracks.
In 3 days we were able to visit all the major sites and find new ones to us which were off the beaten track or in woodland. On the south slopes of Mt Kemmel or Kemmelberg we discovered some caves which were used as a dressing station and accomodation by British troops. I had travelled that road before and had never seen them from a car.
I've been to the Somme a couple of times by motorcycle and enjoyed it but never by bicycle. I don't know how it would be by bicycle as it is more spread out, but the scenery is certainly prettier.
I would certainly recommend the Ypres area if you are limited for time and want a gentle,relaxing but very interesting trip.

I have been taking groups of school kids to both these areas for the past 20 years. The battlefields in Belgium are certainly in a smaller area but personally I would say that the Somme region is prettier and slightly more hilly. There are loads of sights which you could google such as Thiepval, Pozieres, Albert,Delville Wood,Lochnagar and my favourite, Beaumont Hamel.One day I intend to do a tour of the Somme on my bike and without the 43 kids!

I just happened upon this topic whilst seeking inspiration for my touring column in the next issue of the magazine. WW1 battlefields are a particular interest of mine and I've led CTC tours to Ypres, the Somme and Verdun, as well as visiting Arras and Vimy Ridge.

I've found the comments extremely interesting, particularly with regard to Flanders because, despite riding through the area and visiting one or two sites, lack of time prevented serious exploration. What I have seen has not come anywhere near the quality of the sites I've visited in more detail on the Somme. The previous poster, gavrilo, has indicated the places to visit perfectly and I would agree wholeheartedly with his choice and his favourite, Beaumont Hamel.

Base yourself at the Logis in the centre of Albert or you could stay at 'Ocean Villas' (Auchunvilliers) right by Beaumont Hamel where there is a guest house and restaurant run by some English people.

The museums are all well worth visiting - Thiepval, Albert, B-Hamel, Delville Wood and the quirky cafe at Poziers. There is also an excellent one at Peronne, a short ride away, where there is another Logis hotel. As you ride around, you'll also see numerous memorials, not to mention piles of shells recently come to light on the corners of fields. Quite spooky.

You can wander round Delville Wood which is very beautiful and also very spooky. Climb over the fence and into High Wood too if you dare. It's private and apparently untouched since 1918.

If you get the chance do visit Verdun and the battlefields there. Quite amazing.

There's a very good book called, I think, The War Walk. Sadly at home so I can't give you the name of the author. He basically toured the battlefields on foot and it's well worth a read. The more you know about what you're looking at the more incredible the experience of actually being there. A visit to the Imperial War Museum is worth the effort too.

There are a couple of tours of the Somme described on CTC touring sheet FR8. If anyone would like to submit some touring notes on trips to Flanders / Ypres or Verdun, I'm sure it would be much appreciated by many members.

Mark Waters

MarkW wrote:There's a very good book called, I think, The War Walk. Sadly at home so I can't give you the name of the author. He basically toured the battlefields on foot and it's well worth a read.

Definitely called "The War Walk" and it's by Nigel Jones. I'd also recommend "Before Endeavours Fade" by Rose E B Coombs.
I think cycling is one of the best ways of experiencing these areas. You can cover a fairly large area but can still get a sense of scale in that some of the areas were small and the fighting was very concentrated.
I would agree with other respondants that the Somme area is lovely countryside with some stiff climbs, a little like the South Downs.
Hope you enjoy your visit.

Thanks for that.

Mark, like I said earlier, I've had a bit of experience of Flanders, and while I suspect it's a bit rough and ready compared to the Somme, it's a sobering place.
It is of especial interest to me as my Grandfather served there in WW1, and had "fought" at Passendael. I add the apostraphies because he was actually a Royal Engineer, going over the top and walking into the hail of bullets with with a massive roll of telephone wire, which, when at the objective, he would attatch to a telephone. All of this under fire. he was 17, having joined up so he would have a choice of unit and not end up as PBI (poor bloody infantry). His main objection was not to the danger of it all, but rather, being somewhat of a pacifist, he wanted to ensure he wouldn;t be called on to kill anyone. He carried a rifle, but his job with the telephone wire meant he would almost certainly never use it.
I remember a could of the stories he told me when I was a child; that he was chased by a German biplane, which shot off its own propeller, that he was put on a charge for sheltering behind a mule during a barrage, and was told that he cost a shilling a day and the mule two shillings, so if anything, the mule should be sheltering behind him.
He was actually lucky to survive. his best friend, who manned the other side of the wire bale was hit by a shell only a few yard from my grandfather and blown to pieces.
After my grandmother died and we emptied her house, we found a big tin chest with my Grandfather's things from the war. I still have them. There are his medals, of course, and a lot of letters from the front on Salvation Army paper. There's even written on 11/11/18.
We also found a diary of sorts, written in an army notebook, which charts all the places he served in Flanders. The last time we were there, we visited a few, the most visceral being Polygon Wood, which he referred to as "Polygon Buttes" (though he was there for the German offensive of 1918 and not the original battle of 1917).
Here's an image off it in 1917:

We also came across an original trench system in a wood that was pretty well untouched since the war. We got the nod from a man in a bar. There was no fencing, no admittance fee, just a section of trench with rotting wood and corrugated iron, and a wall of shell cases stacked nearly chest high. The man in the bar said Hitler served there.
Of course, where it was, I couldn;t now tell you. How typical of life.
My initial idea behind the tour was to follow the exact route my Grandfather took. Many of the places would reveal nothing, though, other than a sense of continuity with the past. I imagine many of the places, farm buildings and the like, would just be modern reproductions of the places my grandfather served, all the buildings in the area having been utterly destroyed during the war. Some places don;t even exist anymore, so what sense of the war I would get from it I don;t know.
Also, my friend has no such connection, though he has an interest in getting a feel for the war through seeing some of the remnants of the battles of the day.
This is my dilemma. I'm interested in seeing more of Flanders, or rather, flanders in greater detail, but I'm aware it could seem a little ugly; compared with the generally prettier Somme.

Hi, Gotte, what a fascinating message. Although dreadful for your grandfather, how fortunate you are to have that unique connection with Flanders and WW1.

On the matter of the attractiveness of the landscape, certainly Flanders isn't up to much but neither really is the Somme. Yes it is a little hilly and there are pretty bits but you would never go there for its beauty.

I think your connections with Flanders make that the favoured destination. Maybe once your curiosity has been fully satisfied you could then visit the Somme. If your visit coincides with 1st July, you get the added bonus of a memorial service at Thiepval. Book your hotel early for 2016!

Cheers

Mark

Gotte wrote:We also came across an original trench system in a wood that was pretty well untouched since the war. We got the nod from a man in a bar. There was no fencing, no admittance fee, just a section of trench with rotting wood and corrugated iron, and a wall of shell cases stacked nearly chest high. The man in the bar said Hitler served there.
Of course, where it was, I couldn;t now tell you. How typical of life.

That would be the Croonaert are I mentioned in my earlier posting. I first visited this area 31 years ago and it was as you desrcribed. The wall of shell cases were part of a private museum there. It has changed a lot in recent years the shell cases have gone and the wood has now largely cleared and now has restricted access. Here's a link that may be useful http://battlefields1418.50megs.com/croonaert_wood.htm
There's much to see in this area and it's away from the main areas so fairly quiet and in my opinion one of the more interesting areas to visit. Here's another link to the surrounding area. http://www.heuvelland.be/tourism/850-www.html
My Grandfater also served here, as well as other areas, and I first visited here while he was still alive. I don't think he ever returned after the war but he recognised Amiens Catherdral from photos I'd taken, which was away from the front so was a place he rested in.
Hope the links are useful.

A quick postscript I should have added.
One of the photographs in the old museum at Croonaert showed Hitler revisiting the area and looking at the trench system after the capitulation of Paris at the start of the second war.

Thanks for the info on the Somme. I was imagining it was prettier than perhaps you suggest. In that case, we may concentrate more on Flanders, perhaps taking in more of the area than is connected to the war, some towns like Gent, brussels or Antwerp, even.
Wally, I saw your link before, but didn't realise it was the same place. In a lot of ways it's a real shame - I know that it stands to be better preserved now, but there was a real atmosphere when we visited, in autumn and in the rain, with the leaves falling and water in the trenches. It looks so sanitised now, when before it looked so, well, ghostly. I imagined seeing the soldiers coming back through the trees.