Cycling UK Forum

The price is actually £180 plus P&P (£7). Some are in stock now. It is a bit steep but that includes a shifter*, cable, indicator, sprocket and chainstay clip (although I'd rather run the cable along the top tube and use as little outer as possible, like they used to do it).

The S2C sounds very interesting; it's basically a rehash of a Sachs Duomatic, with a back-pedal two-speed change and a coaster brake. Much cheaper too. Hopefully it doesn't have low gear as direct drive like the old S2 hub (you'll never see one).

*like the old ASC, it is a unique shifter, although apparently the S3X is a hack of a 5-speed in the same way as the ASC was a hack of a 4-speed, so in another 50 years when the shifters are like hen's teeth, you could probably use a 5-speed shifter and miss out some positions, in the same way as you can use an ASC with a 4-speed shifter...

rogerzilla wrote:
The S2C sounds very interesting; it's basically a rehash of a Sachs Duomatic, with a back-pedal two-speed change and a coaster brake.

Yep, like the sound of that. The fixed triple sounds slightly scary, I have enough trouble slowing downhill on 70". At 95" legs whirling off Holme Moss you could leave some serious amounts of rubber and skin behind if things got sketchy. Or a sheep played chicken.

How does the S2C work? What if you want to brake without changing gear, for example? Or know what gear you're in if you need to back-pedal a few times (such as getting pedals in prime position for starting off at a junction).

A quick scan of people's thoughts on it show that it's an exciting product, but I'm obviously missing something because it seems weird to me.

You have to pedal backwards further to engage the brake. Braking *always* changes gear; the idea is that it automatically engages "starting" gear when coming to a halt. If you really don't want to change gear, you can use the front brake alone. The real reason for the S2C is to avoid any cables to the rear of the bike, which is useful for Moultons (they have a prototype) or someone who wants the fixie look but doesn't really fancy one speed or being dragged along by the bike.

you can order the S3X with cogs of 14,15,16,17t, so i dont think they are worried about too much torque! has anyone here actually ridden one or heard any feed back? i heard they were road tested in holland for 6 months and they got the go ahead so i guess its good news, although i like my hubs to last longer than 6 months!

I'm getting there. It's built into a wheel (use 284mm right side/286mm left side spokes with a Mavic Open Pro) and the wheel is on the bike. I'm just waiting for some new bar tape so I can cable it up. I'm going for the traditional fulcrum clip at the front of the top tube and the roller at the seat cluster - running it all in outer sleeving under the BB requires loads of zip ties and is technically not as sound.

First impressions? Well made, a couple of degrees of lash, very strong pull needed on the indicator compared to an AW. I wonder whether the clutch key will be prone to stripping its threads? Maybe they should have gone for a two-piece indicator like the old AM (although I've converted two of my AMs to one-piece indicators, since it's unecessary with the AM's weaker pull and then I can use common AW parts).





Pleasingly, the tiny amount of slop means the chain runs silently, even though my chainline is about 1.5mm out (the S3X has a max chainline of 45mm).

I didn't understand half of that (lash, fulcrum clip, indicators, clutch keys? I feel very stupid! ) but I'm really looking forward to hearing how you get on once it's up and running. Keep up the good work!

Mark

I've got an S/A 5 speed,about a year old. Apparently, the heart of the S3X is based on this.In bottom gear of the 5 speed,there is (or certainly feels like) a LOT of energy loss. The old treacle effect. I avoid using this bottom gear if at all possible.Hopefully,with the S3X being fixed,this won't be such a problem.

It seems like the price of the S3X is not much less than the Shimano Alfine 8 speed. The price of fashion eh?!

Hi Rogerzilla,

(although I've converted two of my AMs to one-piece indicators, since it's unecessary with the AM's weaker pull and then I can use common AW parts).

Is that documented anywhere? My AM is in pieces right now - but I don't have an AW to compare it to. Is it just a matter of changing the axle key and indicator? It certainly sounds like a worthwhile modification!

Mark B.

It is. You use the normal AW indicator (HSA125 or HSA126) according to the length of axle, but yours is probably a 5 3/4" axle since the 6 1/4" axles are so rare. You *may* need the AW thrust collar, cap and clutch if your AM originally had a square clutch key. My sweetest-running AM is actually mostly AW apart from the actual planetary gears - the shell, ball ring and all the clutch stuff are AW. The parts are widely interchangeable.

And here's a road test of the S3X, finally. A short one in the dark, but a test nevertheless.

This thing should probably come with a health warning, because it will give you The Fear. On the other hand, it really is fun, in a way unlike any other bike transmission I've tried.

First things first - make sure it's adjusted properly before riding, and run the cable bare as much as possible. You do NOT want to find the neutral between "1" and "2", and an old-fashioned trigger might have been better than the nice, but potentially in-betweeny bar-end shifter.

I put it in middle gear (63") to start off with. It feels almost the same as a normal fixie, albeit one with a fairly slack chain. The bike doesn't feel any heavier than with the Goldtec track hub, which surprised me. Then the weirdness happens. You shift gear and your cadence changes, with the pedals suddenly speeding up. Eek. Now I was in a 53" gear, which is really, really low for fixed. This is slightly grindy but it will probably run in over the first couple of hundred miles. It's nice to climb hills on fixed without having to stand on the pedals, and headwinds suddenly cease to be an issue.

Then I got it onto a long downhill and put it in the top gear, which is 84" in this case. This is direct drive and is completely silent. I overtook another couple of cyclists in the dark, got to the roundabout and changed down to the 52" gear again. Going down from "3" to "1" in one sweep is extremely weird because of the sudden huge increase in cadence; now I know what a car engine feels like when it's being driven by my mother. On the other hand, I could effectively leg-brake on steep hills by going down through the gears, just as in a car. The lowest gear allows the bike to be held on gradients where I'd normally need the brake to avoid running away.

I half-climbed the steepest hill in the village and nothing slipped or broke. Then I came home again, giving it a bit of a whizz in top gear again when I picked up a headwind. The ratios are actually well-chosen, although too wide for time-trialling (I'll stick it in direct drive and leave it there, just using the other gears to warm up and get to the start without plugging along at 50rpm like normal).

I like it more than I thought I would. It would be nice if it had zero lash, but I suspect it's the minimum achievable considering what's going on inside the hub. It has no "purity" like a proper fixed gear; this is something you ride for fun, because you want gears but don't want to run a rear brake or because you have too many hills for one ratio. It is, however, not an easy or novice option, because this will bite you even harder than a normal fix if you don't treat it with respect.

The setup: Fuji Track, 48 x 15, bar-end shifter on the left hand side of bullhorn bars (the brake lever is on the right hand), short piece of cable outer from the shifter, under the bar tape to a fulcrum clip (with proper vintage metal insert ) at the very front of the top tube, then bare cable all the way via a roller at the top of the seat tube. The supplied RH "porthole" axle nut is way too short for anything but alu dropounts, so I used a standard one. This also enabled me to fit a plastic indicator protector cap, which is a Very Good Idea in case the bike ever falls over on its side. The hub is 36-hole and built cross-3 onto a Mavic Open Pro using DT Revolution spokes - a horrid combination to build with, but the finished result is light and strong and it matches the front wheel.

rogerzilla wrote:Going down from "3" to "1" in one sweep is extremely weird because of the sudden huge increase in cadence; now I know what a car engine feels like when it's being driven by my mother.

Thanks for the review!
Can you explain more about "lash"? Trying visualise/feel how it feels when you change gear. Do gear changes feel like a derailleur gear system? How noisy are the non-direct drive gears?
I'm assuming you have the 120LN, how different(?) would you say this hub rides in 135 OLN for light touring?
Why was the wheel build a pain given standard lacing pattern?

Roger, is the minimum recomended chainring and sprocket combo' 2 to 1 as in a S/A 3 speed? You've obviously geared yours for the gear inches you want.I'd be thinking about something like a 70" top gear. I thought the ratios were the same as 3,2 and 1 of the 5 speed hub.Which would have made 70",then something like 59" and 53", but I guess after reading your post they can't be!!

The three ratios of the S3X are the same as the first three gears of the new Sturmey-Archer 5 speed hubs that have wider ratios; this instruction leaflet has a comparison table showing the different ratios of old and new hubs:

http://www.sturmey-archer.com/userfiles ... 3_deen.pdf

I think that the narrower ratio 5 speed hubs have now been discontinued; they don't seem to be shown on the new Sturmey-Archer website.

The lash feels exactly like a slack chain, although the chain isn't slack. Gear changes are like nothing else, because (there being no slipping-clutch as in a car) you can't match your pedalling speed before the next gear engages, so your legs are forcibly slowed or speeded up with a jerk. I thought "2" was silent but "1" is a bit grindy. I expect it will run in, because it's no worse than a new SRF3. The 135mm version will ride the same, but may build up as a dishless wheel - the 120mm is noticeably dished, with tighter RH spokes. The wheel build was a pain because DT Revs wind up so much and have to be carefully untwisted, and Open Pros are not especially stiff or round (especially at the welded rim joint).

I'm not aware of a minimum chainring/sprocket ratio, but a 70" top will make getting down hills tricky.