Viscount bicycles!!

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
ScrumDrum
Posts: 8
Joined: 6 Aug 2020, 10:59pm

Viscount bicycles!!

Post by ScrumDrum »

Cheerio -

An American here...My dear grandmother bought me a Viscount Aerospace Gran Prix Gran Sport road bike in 1977 at Jim Skelly's shop in Nyack, New York...Think we paid US$175...It had the non-aluminum fork when I bought it so I was OK...In post-war Britain they were manufacturing things to last and this bike was no exception...I am now almost 60 and have never used or needed any other bike...

The problem is I have ridden it so much I have worn the parts down and my bike shop man says he can't get replacement hubs...He told me that he only stocked certain parts at his store for me and pretty much gave me the hint that those parts were becoming unavailable...I'm a bike dummy so I don't know the sizes or makes etc...I'm pretty sure the hubs I had for years were Weinmann (sp?)...Maybe they were Shimano...The cheap chinese hubs my bike mechanic tried to replace them with have now developed an annoying play from left to right and made the bike barely ride-able...The chain is also now popping off with any cranking...I think that is because the Campy rear shifter my mechanic installed has quit and is no longer tensioning...

Any advice?...

This bike is still remarkably tight when repaired to fitness...

It is the fire engine red model...
drossall
Posts: 6107
Joined: 5 Jan 2007, 10:01pm
Location: North Hertfordshire

Re: Viscount bicycles!!

Post by drossall »

I think you need to decide first what you want to achieve - an exact refit with the original parts (difficult, and you seem to have changed some anyway), a refit with appropriate parts but not necessarily the originals (easier), to try to modernise it (modern wheels are wider, though many steel frames can be widened to suit) or even convert to single speed.

You can get some rear gear mechanisms that would work, although there's a good chance of getting spares and/or repairing a Campag one. Velo Orange still make new hubs in 126mm spacing - I think Weinmann would be your rims and probably brakes but not the hubs which, if I recall correctly, would be Lambert, which I think was Viscount's own brand? Decent freewheels are getting hard to track down.

You probably need advice from either a local enthusiast or a shop who are willing to take it on - someone who can take a look at the bike, basically. Or you could start by posting pictures here; we'd enjoy them anyway :D The Eroica movement has led to increased interest in reviving older bikes in something like original condition.

I came across this thread elsewhere with some specifications.
Brucey
Posts: 44454
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Viscount bicycles!!

Post by Brucey »

part of a 1977 test including that bike

Image

from here https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/1180638-road-test-bike-review-1977-bikes-180-205-a.html
pt2 here https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/1180643-road-test-bike-review-1977-bikes-180-205-part-2-a.html

it looks like your bike was mostly shimano equipped with exceptions such as brakes and chainset. From the sounds of it you don't need that many parts to make your bike whole again, and buying cheap new parts via the local bike shop is probably not the way to do it, not when there is a whole internet full of correct parts that you can source; it is just a question of knowing where to look and exactly what to look for.

If you want to restore the bike to original spec I think you need to seek out some shimano hubs HC-110 (or HB-6120 F/R models which are very similar). The rims are listed as Nisi-Evian but Milremo/Ambrosio rims were also used on Viscount bikes around that time too. A decent wheelset will really 'lift' the bike. Originally the spokes would have been plain gauge 14G but you could treat the wheels to nice new stainless steel double butted spokes instead; much nicer, and much closer to what the hubs deserve; they were rightly praised in the 1977 test as the best ones amongst the bikes they tested.

FWIW those shimano hubs use the same/similar internal parts as many other shimano hub models, so compatible parts such as cones, locknuts, axles, ball bearings etc are commonplace even today. If necessary the bearing cups can be replaced in the hubshell (by taking them from a compatible donor hub e.g. with the more common small flanges) thus all wearing parts in the hub can be replaced if needs be.

As it happens I have a spare 36h shimano HC-110 rear hubshell (with good cups) but I guess postage from the UK to the US would make that impractical; you ought to be able to find what you need more locally than that.

good luck with the refurb

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ScrumDrum
Posts: 8
Joined: 6 Aug 2020, 10:59pm

Viscount bicycles!!

Post by ScrumDrum »

The Velo Orange link was what I was looking for...I had a feeling my mechanic was not being fully truthful about the parts no longer being available...I called another bike shop owner I know through a high end rider friend and he told me to search the internet...I don't really blame them but I guess the message they are sending me is don't ask me for help if you are going to undermine our present bloated price market by preserving an antique...I realize I am missing some serious technology upgrades that have occurred over the past 43 years but the last time I had my Viscount refurbished with cheap spares the mechanic remarked that the Viscount was remarkably smooth and tight for an old bike...I got a taste of that new carbon fiber era technology when I borrowed my brother's Specialized hybrid mountain bike...

I rang up Velo Orange just now in Maryland and they said my Viscount hubs were almost certainly 126mm, which gives me the information I needed...That solves the majority of my problem with what appear to be the worthy hubs I sought...I told him I now have a chain popping off problem as well and he said it was probably the free wheels on my Campagnolo rear shifter not being compatible with the new chain...I told him yes, they did appear to be pretty shot...I think the tensioner on that rear shifter is shot and not tensioning the chain...OK - good advice from this forum that solves my problem...I probably need a new rear shifter and I'll be set so my next task is finding a good replacement...

I had scanned some new bikes...The Trek Emonda SL 6 Disc was US$2500 and very tempting...There's a $3200 model that looks seriously tempting...The only problem being the Viscount more than adequately serves my riding needs and I get a thrill giving some of these young hot shots a ride for their money on my old clunker...The Viscount has paid for itself many times over and I have probably ridden it around the world and then some in mileage...
Brucey
Posts: 44454
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Viscount bicycles!!

Post by Brucey »

It seems most likely that your rear hub would originally have been 120mm OLN. The reason I say this is that firstly, like all the bikes in the test I linked to, the bike was originally fitted with a 5s freewheel. At that time 126mm OLN spacing was only used on bikes fitted with a 6s freewheel.

Second, in about 1979 I bought the original wheels which were fitted to my chum's 1978 Viscount Aerospace Pro model and I still have those wheels (or to be more accurate, those hubs which are the same model as yours would have been, with the 'n'-th new rims on them). They came with a 131mm length axle which is what shimano supplied with 120mm OLN hubs. When the hubs were built to 126mm OLN the axle fitted would have been 137mm. in each case there is meant to be 5.5mm axle protrusion into the dropouts.

So by all means check how wide your frame is when there is no wheel in it; it might still be 120mm but then again someone may have 'helpfully' spread it wider to get some crappy modern wheel into it. Whatever width it is now, that is probably the width of hub you should aim to fit.

IME almost any RD (that isn't knackered or bent) will shift OK provided you use sprockets which are designed to be slick-shifting, eg, HG type; these days such sprockets are to be found even on inexpensive freewheels. However many 'period correct' campagnolo RDs have a specific problem which usually manifests itself when older sprocket designs are used. This problem is related to the jockey pulleys and the chain; old campag jockey pulleys have shallow teeth which are designed to engage with old 'full-bushing' type 3/32" chain which has taller side plates. 'Modern' bushingless chains (starting with sedisport in about 1979 and now including all but a few chains you can buy) have shallower side plates and don't engage well with old campag pulleys. Simply fitting pulleys (or even just the upper pulley) with taller teeth to an older campag RD usually improves the shifting performance no end.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ScrumDrum
Posts: 8
Joined: 6 Aug 2020, 10:59pm

Viscount bicycles!!

Post by ScrumDrum »

I just measured using an inch scale tape measure...It eyed out to just about 5 inches exactly from the inside of the drop out to the one on the other side...I went to the inches to millimeter converter on the internet and it converted to 127mm...Seems Velo Orange is made to order...

I think I should just buy a new rear derailleur...(I see that is the hardest of them all to find)...
Callahan
Posts: 3
Joined: 7 Apr 2020, 12:07pm

Re: Viscount bicycles!!

Post by Callahan »

Hi ScrumDrum,

I was a Viscount dealer in Pennsylvania in the seventies, and I posted a copy of the dealer manual on DropBox. You can look up your model, and see what parts it originally had. I believe your bike is an AGS, with your parts list starting on page 31. Good luck with the repairs.

Bob Callahan

https://www.dropbox.com/s/d3zdjvixmat03 ... l.pdf?dl=0
Brucey
Posts: 44454
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Viscount bicycles!!

Post by Brucey »

Image

Image

HC-110 hubs as your viscount would originally have had.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Brucey
Posts: 44454
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Viscount bicycles!!

Post by Brucey »

I found the 1974 and 1978 shimano catalogue listings for HC-110 hubs

Image

http://www.disraeligears.co.uk/Site/Shimano_Bicycle_System_Components_1978_page_36.html

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ScrumDrum
Posts: 8
Joined: 6 Aug 2020, 10:59pm

Viscount bicycles!!

Post by ScrumDrum »

Interesting video discussing the history of Viscount bikes...

I believe I have the "Fillet Brazed" frame he mentions...

I'm pretty sure he has the third incarnation of the aluminum "death fork" and likes it...

My fork is steel and is painted red with chrome out the bottom half...

Mine is definitely the "AGS" model...I wonder what that means as to which grade bike I bought?:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRfbDqOR-5s
ScrumDrum
Posts: 8
Joined: 6 Aug 2020, 10:59pm

Viscount bicycles!!

Post by ScrumDrum »

My 1977 Viscount Gran Sports...It is still a worthy rig...I just ordered a 126mm Velo Orange rear hub (front hubs are temporarily out of stock)...

I find the 1 1/8th rear tires (1 inch front) I use here in south Florida better for the sandy environment with more options yet still road worthy:

1977 Viscount Gran Sports
1977 Viscount Gran Sports
Last edited by ScrumDrum on 13 Aug 2020, 10:49pm, edited 2 times in total.
Brucey
Posts: 44454
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Viscount bicycles!!

Post by Brucey »

it looks like a faithful friend.

Plenty of these machines have been converted to 700C wheels; this requires lowering the brake blocks by about 4mm which allows more room for mudguards etc but also makes the brakes a bit less effective. For now you can still get 27" rims and tyres but I suppose that the day may come when you can't, or only in very poor quality or something.

FWIW you can still buy rubber hoods to fit the brake levers if you want them.

Zefal HP pump too, very nice!

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Callahan
Posts: 3
Joined: 7 Apr 2020, 12:07pm

Re: Viscount bicycles!!

Post by Callahan »

I scanned my Viscount Owners Manual using my iPad. It’s not a great copy, but I didn’t want to disassemble it for my sheet fed scanner. I’ll post another copy when I can get one made.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/j6chffvbo1bergu/Viscount%20Owners%20Manual.pdf?dl=0
ScrumDrum
Posts: 8
Joined: 6 Aug 2020, 10:59pm

Re: Viscount bicycles!!

Post by ScrumDrum »

The rear 126mm wide-flange hub arrived yesterday in the post...I did a quick Windex and paper towel cleaning of the bike and got it over to my bike shop before closing...They took it in no problem and I gave them the Velo Orange hub with instructions...I told them to fix the chain popping off problem too and told them you guys said it was the free wheel that was causing it...I'll replace the front hub too when Velo Orange does a production run in the fall...Be careful when ordering because there is a 32 spoke and 36 spoke version...I counted spokes and mine was the 36 spoke version...It is a fine-looking high quality hub that was recently milled...

When I cleaned my pedal set it reminded me it was Campagnolo...I had a serious bike rider friend who had a shop in New York replace the original in the 1980's...My friend Matt Doran was an iron-legged monster who would get up early and ride before work...When he changed my pedal set in the 80's he told me he was getting in to Velodrome racing...He grew up in my suburban New York neighborhood as a child...Bike riding was his thing...On a recent trip to New York I found out he died from cancer in 2018...

Hopefully my Viscount will be back in shape on Monday...
ScrumDrum
Posts: 8
Joined: 6 Aug 2020, 10:59pm

Viscount bicycles!!

Post by ScrumDrum »

The shop put the new Velo Orange rear hub on and it looks great...

He then took a special device and showed me my chain was shot and had too much stretch and that was why it was popping off the chain wheel...It was offscale...My back sprocket was grinded to shark teeth points so he's going to replace that too...

Hopefully I'll have that tight smooth ride back soon and be able to crank on my Viscount...It hums when it is brought back in to shape...
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