Viscount bicycles!!

[thispartisreqired]

Thanks for the info, ill send some pics your way it would be interesting to find out how old it is
I think it has a third gen fork, looks like the crown has an insert in it and there is a roll pin in the crown and in the steerer.

thanks again

[rockthebus]

mmmm Dont know what I have!!!!

I've had this bike for many years now, but never used it, although I did get it second hand......

Its a Viscount Aerospace.....

I'm guessing its made about 1982 but not really sure...

I trying to find out its exact model and year with maybe selling it on now

Any help would be greatly appreciated

It has the following:

Brookes Vitesse 400 seat

Chrome molybdenum tubing 0 can't see a frame number? Where would it usually be located?

SR Road Champion handlebars

Shimano: 600dx Brake levers, brake calipers, front and rear mechs, hubs, pedals, cranks (52/42 tooth chainset)

Mavic module E2 rims (700 x 23C)

Is there any more info I can get to help

Thanks

http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/gmherron/ViscountAerospace#5486053804396777490

[VonB]

Hi guy's, I've just picked up this Viscount today but I'm not completely sure what model it is, as you can see it says 'sport' on the top tube and 'handmade in England' on the downtube.Equipment wise is got Huret gears rather than Shimano but it does have some rather nice Weinmann brake levers.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/51486307@N02/

If anyone can provide any more details on this particular model I'd most appreciate it. The chap I bought it off bought it in 1982, cycled across France on it and since then it's been hanging up in his garage!

Stuart VonB.

[cyclingthelakes]

Can't help but add in some resources in case Busaste was not aware, the Classic Rendezvous discussion email forum, http://search.bikelist.org/?SearchString=viscount&pg=1 , not that easy to sift through, honestly, I think the discussion here is better but something still for everybody.

Also, Viscount catalog here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/strongligh ... 577/detail I think most of us have seen these.

The Viscount is whippy but highly manoeuvrable and agile, I rode it in the maze of a storage area the other day and could make all the corners with no sweat, I still had to get out my trusty Motobecane 'steel is real' bike out, there's also something nice about a bike that absorbs for a change of pace and is very sturdy.

---------------------------------------------------

If Busaste sees this or anyone else, here is an interesting historical post:

"Archive-URL: http://search.bikelist.org/getmsg.asp?F ... 6.0155.eml
From: "Norris Lockley" <norris(AT)norrislockley.wanadoo.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 23:53:56 +0100
Subject: [CR]Viscount frames and cycles

A great deal had been written about the cast aluminium fork that appears
to have caused so much grief to the riders of the early Lambert
bikes,and although I have been in the cycle industry actively in the UK
for nearly 40 years after having taken a short break away from it in the
60s, I was never aware of the problems with the fork.
When I started retailing again in the 70s the Viscount range was very
well known and respected, with the top-of-the range "Aerospace" model
being very popular in that tier of sales below the genuine hand-built
frames.The bronze-welded frames were known to be very light, and as I
recall, bore a decal testifying to the nature of the tubing. The company
even supported a team of Pro riders for a while.

In England at that time it was assumed that all lightwieghrt frames were
built from one of the range of Reynolds 531 tube sets..although I
remember that the 531SL version was launched in the mid-70s and Raliegh
were using the 753 tubes sets.
Accles and Pollock's "Kromo" had ceased to be produced, but frames were
coming in from France built from Durifort, Vitus, Jex, and from Italy
using Columbus and one or two less known brands.

No one in the trade seemed to know what non-lightweight tubing was
being used, apart from TI's "Tru-Wel". Apparently many reasonable
quality frames, ie good quality sports frames were using Mazzucato tubes
from Italy.

Viscount however in their search for "home-grown" materials and products
sourced their "Aerospace" tubing from a company called Phoenix, a
manufacturer based in Wednesbury not far from Birmingham. Not much is
known about Phoenix tubing except that it was thought to be a plain
gauge seamed , rather than a double-butted drawn and seamless tubing.
Additionally it was a Chrome-Moly rather than a Chrome-Manganese. It
might have been used by other builders but I cannot remember any
references to it.

It did however surface again some years after the Viscount Company
finally closed its doors, and was used by Falcon Cycles as the three
main tubes in the companies top-of-the-range frame of that time. I can't
remember the model, but in the UK it was finished
in a flam. burgundy with some chrome somewhere in the rear triangle. The
front forks were sourced from Tange, the lugs were long point Prugnat
with windows. The frame when built into a bike used the Campag Gran
Sport groupset. Maybe it was exported to the States. I recall seeing the
new model in the office of Billie Holmes, the former ace time-triallist
and roadman, who was at that time - early 80s - the Sales Manager for
Falcon. Billy claimed that there was a weight-saving in the main
triangle of 4 ozs when compared with 531DB.. and of course it was much
cheaper.

The tubing also found its way into the workshops of a number of
lightweight frame-builders who rather unscrupulously substituted the
tubing for reynolds 531 DB, but the frame decals never told the truth,
Slightly later on Falcon suffered a very bad fire in its paint plant,
the reult of which is that several thousand "fire-damaged" frames were
sold off as salvage, only to enter the retail supply chain carrying all
manner of makers' names.. including some well-known ones.

So if you have a frame answering this description.. look closely at the
rear drop-outs and if they are Shimano's long road version of the
well-known Campagnolo ones.. start wondering.

Norris Lockley...Settle, Uk

--------------

So Falcon cycles used that same sort of tubing (Aerospace) at a later date?

[Dtharme2001]

Hi all,

In response to VonB's message I also have the same bike, albeit black. I have the same decals, Huret Gears and Weinmann brakes. I think the bike could be one of the Grand Tourers, although info is very hard to come by.
I'm planning on stripping and repainting mine to get it looking original, and if anyone is after Viscount stickers this is the only place I've found that will supply them! http://www.hlloydcycles.com/page3.htm.

DT

[busaste]

Hi guy's, I've just picked up this Viscount today but I'm not completely sure what model it is, as you can see it says 'sport' on the top tube and 'handmade in England' on the downtube.Equipment wise is got Huret gears rather than Shimano but it does have some rather nice Weinmann brake levers.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/51486307@N02/

If anyone can provide any more details on this particular model I'd most appreciate it. The chap I bought it off bought it in 1982, cycled across France on it and since then it's been hanging up in his garage!

Stuart VonB.

Hi Stuart
Your Viscount is not listed in my 1981 or 1982 Viscount catalogues so it must be a 1980 'Sport'. The bike's seems to be in almost completely original specification too which is nice. The frame on your model was not made from the fabled 'Aerospace' or other 'posh' tubing such as Reynolds, Columbus, etc. The Sport model frame was either made at Viscount's Potters Bar factory or obtained from a Taiwanese builder. By the way, don't knock those early Taiwanese frame builders - they were good. Regardless of country of origin the Sport frames were made from good old tough but heavy seemed carbon steel. Lug work was nice too if not top draw. I have a mid 70's Viscount Sebring which has a 70's Taiwanese frame - it has survived an awful lot of mileage and neglect.
Back in the 70's the Sport was the lowest spec. entry level model of the legendary 'Aerospace' bike range. However once we got into the 80's Viscount shunted the Sport lower down its range in terms of spec and price. Still a very good bike though and one that Viscount sold for a silly low price.
So, in my opinion, polish, love and ride your Sport!!!!!! Contrary to what you may have seen on the 'net, Viscount did not make duff bikes.
The attached picture is of a very original 1978 Viscount Aerospace Sport (one of the last of this model!) for comparison with yours. Frame is lugless Phoenix ('Aerospace') tubing joined together with low temperature fillet brazing. Gears are Shimano 600, hubs - Shimano large flange alloy quick release, alloy wheel rims, chainset SR Royal, brakes - Shimano Tourney, Birmalux alloy seat post, Union 'ratrap' pedals, Birmalux alloy bars, Shimano brake levers and brake quick release fittings, Shimano 14 - 28 five speed freewheel. Price in 1978 was around £100 with a bit of haggling. AMAZING value for money for a bike weighing 25lbs and loaded with great Shimano/SR components.
Steve

[busaste]

Can't help but add in some resources in case Busaste was not aware, the Classic Rendezvous discussion email forum, http://search.bikelist.org/?SearchString=viscount&pg=1 , not that easy to sift through, honestly, I think the discussion here is better but something still for everybody.

Also, Viscount catalog here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/strongligh ... 577/detail I think most of us have seen these.

The Viscount is whippy but highly manoeuvrable and agile, I rode it in the maze of a storage area the other day and could make all the corners with no sweat, I still had to get out my trusty Motobecane 'steel is real' bike out, there's also something nice about a bike that absorbs for a change of pace and is very sturdy.

---------------------------------------------------

If Busaste sees this or anyone else, here is an interesting historical post:

"Archive-URL: http://search.bikelist.org/getmsg.asp?F ... 6.0155.eml
From: "Norris Lockley" <norris(AT)norrislockley.wanadoo.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 23:53:56 +0100
Subject: [CR]Viscount frames and cycles

A great deal had been written about the cast aluminium fork that appears
to have caused so much grief to the riders of the early Lambert
bikes,and although I have been in the cycle industry actively in the UK
for nearly 40 years after having taken a short break away from it in the
60s, I was never aware of the problems with the fork.
When I started retailing again in the 70s the Viscount range was very
well known and respected, with the top-of-the range "Aerospace" model
being very popular in that tier of sales below the genuine hand-built
frames.The bronze-welded frames were known to be very light, and as I
recall, bore a decal testifying to the nature of the tubing. The company
even supported a team of Pro riders for a while.

In England at that time it was assumed that all lightwieghrt frames were
built from one of the range of Reynolds 531 tube sets..although I
remember that the 531SL version was launched in the mid-70s and Raliegh
were using the 753 tubes sets.
Accles and Pollock's "Kromo" had ceased to be produced, but frames were
coming in from France built from Durifort, Vitus, Jex, and from Italy
using Columbus and one or two less known brands.

No one in the trade seemed to know what non-lightweight tubing was
being used, apart from TI's "Tru-Wel". Apparently many reasonable
quality frames, ie good quality sports frames were using Mazzucato tubes
from Italy.

Viscount however in their search for "home-grown" materials and products
sourced their "Aerospace" tubing from a company called Phoenix, a
manufacturer based in Wednesbury not far from Birmingham. Not much is
known about Phoenix tubing except that it was thought to be a plain
gauge seamed , rather than a double-butted drawn and seamless tubing.
Additionally it was a Chrome-Moly rather than a Chrome-Manganese. It
might have been used by other builders but I cannot remember any
references to it.

It did however surface again some years after the Viscount Company
finally closed its doors, and was used by Falcon Cycles as the three
main tubes in the companies top-of-the-range frame of that time. I can't
remember the model, but in the UK it was finished
in a flam. burgundy with some chrome somewhere in the rear triangle. The
front forks were sourced from Tange, the lugs were long point Prugnat
with windows. The frame when built into a bike used the Campag Gran
Sport groupset. Maybe it was exported to the States. I recall seeing the
new model in the office of Billie Holmes, the former ace time-triallist
and roadman, who was at that time - early 80s - the Sales Manager for
Falcon. Billy claimed that there was a weight-saving in the main
triangle of 4 ozs when compared with 531DB.. and of course it was much
cheaper.

The tubing also found its way into the workshops of a number of
lightweight frame-builders who rather unscrupulously substituted the
tubing for reynolds 531 DB, but the frame decals never told the truth,
Slightly later on Falcon suffered a very bad fire in its paint plant,
the reult of which is that several thousand "fire-damaged" frames were
sold off as salvage, only to enter the retail supply chain carrying all
manner of makers' names.. including some well-known ones.

So if you have a frame answering this description.. look closely at the
rear drop-outs and if they are Shimano's long road version of the
well-known Campagnolo ones.. start wondering.

Norris Lockley...Settle, Uk

--------------

So Falcon cycles used that same sort of tubing (Aerospace) at a later date?

Hi

Thanks for that. I have read this information before and it is all very true.

Phoenix Tube Co. Ltd. made steel tubing mostly for aerospace applications e.g. parts of the struts on Boeing 747s, fuselages on stunt aircraft. Originally it was used by Lambert for their frames. This was for - allegedly - three main reasons:

a) Raleigh would not allow them to use Reynolds as they were really worried about this new 'upstart' Lambert company who were claiming that they would soon be making 50,000 bikes per year.
b) Great price.
c) Performance.

So what of this mythical Phoenix tubing? It came in two grades, '101' and '1027'. When Lambert went bust in 1974 (an amazing story in itself by the way...) Viscount was born out of the ashes of this mess. Viscount's 'Aerospace' frames were made to the same specification, in the same factory and on the same jigs as Lambert's lugless frames. The grade of tubing used was also Phoenix '1027'. In other words Viscount frames were basically the same as Lamberts albeit built to more rigorous standards. If it aint broke, etc...
It is only my opinion but, and this is backed up by other frame builders I have spoken to, that the Phoenix tube was amazing! Viscount greatly increased their quality control compared to Lambert and amongst other things, conducted a number of tests on the Phoenix tube. Allegedly, despite being markedly thinner walled, the Phoenix tube in these tests out performed Reynolds 531 double butted (that statement is bound to enrage the purists but there you go!). At the time Viscount backed this claim up with a report - which was available to any one - of the testing carried out by an independent company. I am desperate to see that report by the way so I can add it to my very nerdy Viscount database/records.
The official spec of Phoenix '1027' tubing was as follows:
Cold drawn seamless chrome molybdenum alloy steel
Exceeds the performance required from the following aircraft specification:
American Aircraft Specification MIL-T-6736A
British Aircraft Specification NR 3T50
Minimum physical properties:
Yield stress tons/square inch = 45 tons
Tensile strength tons/square inch = 50 tons
Elongation percentages on 2 inch gauge length = 12.5%
The Viscount Aerospace frames were also subject to a variety of 'to destruction' tests required by American consumer regulations. In addition other unique to Viscount brutal frame/tube tests were also added. One of my favourites was where 12000lbs in weight was hung off one of the frame tubes to measure deflection/lugless joint strength.
I have quite a few Aerospace frames, one of which has done over 60,000 miles. All of them are fine even after 30+ years of (ab?)use. Also, I am, ahem, not the lightest of people either so carrying my carcas is a tough test for any frame! It is very impressive how such thin walled steel can survive such a battering for so long. What is not widely known is that the Aerospace frames were used extensively by the Coventry Olympic Viscount team in the 1970s. The team won many championships on these frames including those in the grueling sport of Cyclocross.
Cyclists can be a surprisingly set in their ways lot when it comes to their bicycles (a bit rich coming from me?). I think this partly explained why their was always a degree of resistance to Phoenix tube. I mean, how could a noticeably thinner tube be so much stronger than Reynolds 531 DB? Still, aside from Viscount, quite a few frame builders used it in the 1970's for their frames. Their is more of it around than you may think! There are also quite a few Lambert frames running around speedway circuits even to this day. Some of the racers are not even aware of this...
It saddens me a bit that the engineers who created Phoenix 1027 and 101 cycle tubing have never got the recognition they deserved.
Hope this is all food for thought!
Steve

[lebleup]

busaste ,

I have a Viscount I purchased a while ago and am just in the beginnings of cleaning it up and preparing it for use. I've ridden it in its current state and can tell it is something special. Here's a link to the Viscount. http://s741.photobucket.com/albums/xx59 ... /Viscount/

Is it possible to get your expert input on this beauty I am excited about riding once cleaned up and set to go? I have read so much about the "death fork" but never a solid...'YES..I KNOW SOMEONE WHO'S VISCOUNT FORK SPLIT AND THUS' this or that.

Can you tell by the photos if this fork is a "Death Fork" ? Are these original vintage parts? What is the approx year?

Thanks for your insite!

[busaste]

busaste ,

I have a Viscount I purchased a while ago and am just in the beginnings of cleaning it up and preparing it for use. I've ridden it in its current state and can tell it is something special. Here's a link to the Viscount. http://s741.photobucket.com/albums/xx59 ... /Viscount/

Is it possible to get your expert input on this beauty I am excited about riding once cleaned up and set to go? I have read so much about the "death fork" but never a solid...'YES..I KNOW SOMEONE WHO'S VISCOUNT FORK SPLIT AND THUS' this or that.

Can you tell by the photos if this fork is a "Death Fork" ? Are these original vintage parts? What is the approx year?

Thanks for your insite!

Hi

You have an amazingly original 1975 Viscount Aerospace GP. Lucky man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is a USA market GP as confirmed by the black plastic cover on the right hand chain stay. The 'GP' was the second highest spec model in Viscount's range below the Aerospace Pro.

VERY original it is too even down to the death fork. It is more than likely a mark 3 Viscount death fork which is much stronger than the earlier Lambert one. The attachment gives more details on the death fork. I do not know of any death fork failures and I know people who raced on them in cyclo cross! According to Yamaha's original fork recall for the USA 30 failures were recorded out of 30,000+ sold. Sheldon Brown recommended that a death fork equipped Viscount should not be ridden. I have 3 heavily used/crashed death forks and they are all fine. As always, it is your call.

As far as I can tell from your photos, the only non original parts are:
Red bar tape (should be black cloth)
Rear hub (looks to a French Maillard but photos of the left side of the bike would be a big help in confirming what you have)
Handle bar stem bolt - it should be a recessed allen bolt (I think I have spares of these)
Rear spoke protector (they did not have one)

Your frame's top tube should have an 'Aerospace GP' sticker on each side. I think I have spares of these.

Your right hand pedal is missing its dust cap. See attachment below for what these should look like.

So, polish it, love it and ride!!!

Classic Viscount.

Steve

[lebleup]

busaste, thanks for the insite on this Viscount. It is quite a joy to ride as is, but cleaning it up is a must!

I took a photo of the rear hub. If you are able to magnify the image, you will see the V I S C O part of Viscount on it.

http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx59 ... C00543.jpg

However, on the left side of the wheel, the lever has lettering I cannot quite make out. On the hand brake levers it reads LAMBERT as well as on the front and rear brake mechanisms.

On both rims is a sticker that says... BIRMALUX with ENGLAND under it.

http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx59 ... C00542.jpg

I can tell that the top tube had a sticker on either side that was removed and the dust caps on the pedals missing. Well, I guess it's a search task for me to find these items, but I gotta tell you, everytime I am working with the bike up on the rack, I end up pulling it down and riding it around my driveway and front road. It is such a joy to ride. I like the feeling it has and look forward to getting out on the flats to see how fast this old man can propel this beauty.

My son has a rare Bridgestone Gran-Velo 12 speed that we picked up from some young college kid who needed gas money. The bike is suuuuuuuper light and and extremely fast. My son and I raced along a bike path (he on the Grand-Velo, me on a Gary Fisher Marlin.... mind you) and my 15 year old son absolute left me in the dust with "plenty of pedal left" he says. So... once this Viscount is cleaned and tuned up, we're gonna test that thing out on the flats. :0))

Here's a photo of my son holding his super light Bridgestone Grand-Velo up with two fingers. .... the little show off.

http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx59 ... 0-1641.jpg

There's nothing funner than riding a bike. It's the simple pleasures that are most enjoyable!

[cyclingthelakes]

busaste, thanks for the insite on this Viscount. It is quite a joy to ride as is, but cleaning it up is a must!

I took a photo of the rear hub. If you are able to magnify the image, you will see the V I S C O part of Viscount on it.

http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx59 ... C00543.jpg

However, on the left side of the wheel, the lever has lettering I cannot quite make out. On the hand brake levers it reads LAMBERT as well as on the front and rear brake mechanisms.

On both rims is a sticker that says... BIRMALUX with ENGLAND under it.

http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx59 ... C00542.jpg

I can tell that the top tube had a sticker on either side that was removed and the dust caps on the pedals missing. Well, I guess it's a search task for me to find these items, but I gotta tell you, everytime I am working with the bike up on the rack, I end up pulling it down and riding it around my driveway and front road. It is such a joy to ride. I like the feeling it has and look forward to getting out on the flats to see how fast this old man can propel this beauty.

My son has a rare Bridgestone Gran-Velo 12 speed that we picked up from some young college kid who needed gas money. The bike is suuuuuuuper light and and extremely fast. My son and I raced along a bike path (he on the Grand-Velo, me on a Gary Fisher Marlin.... mind you) and my 15 year old son absolute left me in the dust with "plenty of pedal left" he says. So... once this Viscount is cleaned and tuned up, we're gonna test that thing out on the flats. :0))

Here's a photo of my son holding his super light Bridgestone Grand-Velo up with two fingers. .... the little show off.

http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx59 ... 0-1641.jpg

There's nothing funner than riding a bike. It's the simple pleasures that are most enjoyable!

Nice 2nd post.

[tompatterson]

I note Youtube has a lot of bike videos, someone should make a viscount video! I might be able to at some point in the future.

<thumbsup>

[busaste]

I note Youtube has a lot of bike videos, someone should make a viscount video! I might be able to at some point in the future.

<thumbsup>

That's it! I have toyed with this idea over the last year - I'm now gonna do a 'walk around' video of some of my Viscounts. A kind of 'spotters guide'

Will come back when it is done/loaded!

[colin mitchell]

Wonderful bike. I used one in the 1970's. A red colour. I raced in club and local time trials. Go to www.farnhamroadclub.co.uk and I can be seen in the gallery riding it. Put the mudguards and a rack on and completed a CTC holiday tour of Rutland. They are both gone now. Rutland done away with and the bike went into a parked van when I was hit from behind by a car. I fortunately survived.

[cyclingthelakes]

Wonderful bike. I used one in the 1970's. A red colour. I raced in club and local time trials. Go to http://www.farnhamroadclub.co.uk and I can be seen in the gallery riding it. Put the mudguards and a rack on and completed a CTC holiday tour of Rutland. They are both gone now. Rutland done away with and the bike went into a parked van when I was hit from behind by a car. I fortunately survived.

Sorry to hear about your accident but good that the Viscount served you.

I urge everyone to go check the website Colin cited, I do see the racing pictures of him. Busaste will like those. The chainring crank looks a bit different than the Viscount I have but sure enough, look like the ones on the Lambert/Viscounts on ebay I list below.

http://www.farnhamroadclub.co.uk/images ... mage06.jpg

Now the 2nd fellow, I don't believe is riding a Viscount but I may be mistaken.

On the subject of a Red Viscount, ebay just saw listed 2 nice looking bikes.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... SS:US:1123 A red one and it looks like they did the handlebars up in foam, going for over $700 (+ shipping $135 now making it a bit pricey, best offer, out of my range but the bike I'd think would be fair at $650), modern components, save I'm not all that in awe of Sora rear derailleurs but otherwise, it looks worth it. I don't care much for Sora at all but maybe I am wrong. What is this with the headbadge and in fact, all of the decals, that's not Viscount. This Viscount must have been repainted and a lot of work done to it, basically reinventing itself which is alright sometimes. I have seen a few Viscounts for sale out of Canada, I don't know if this one has been up before, possibly.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... K:MEWAX:IT And then this blue one, it claims to use the aerospace material, otherwise, it looks lugged. I thought I'd heard Lamberts have some weight to them but it is a handsome bike nonetheless. Triple Crank Chain wheels. Oh, and some gold and inscription on the handlebars like the one at Classic Rendezvous. Definitely lugged though, this one looks very interesting at around $350. Blue Viscount caps....

Maybe Busaste the expert will weigh in or any other experts out there.