Cars - RLJ

[askeans]

When reading threads on this site about RLJ I often read that 'cars do it more than bikes'.

I was suprised by this so watched out for it a little more and can't say I noticed many cars doing this. But lots of people had asserted this fact, so I would appreciate it if someone who beleives this to be the case could they confirm what they considered to by RLJing car i.e. going straight through a red on amber what so I can try and see this for myself

[Si]

Cars do it around here a lot more than bikes simply because there are a lot more bikes than cars in this area.

The majority of them are those that believe that the amber light means "floor it", and so the lights go red just before they get to the junction yet they carry on. At the main road junction by me I can expect to see one or two cars pass the stop line moments after the light has gone red. This is not just a one off, it happens on virtually every change during busier periods.

On a few occasion I see some that go over the red several seconds after the change, for instance the other day as we approached TLs, in a car, they went amber. We had plenty of time and room to pull up easily before the lights and so did. the car behind us pulled out and shot past us, and through the red lights.

However, if we are talking about the case where the lights have been red for some time when the vehicle arrives at the stop line, then I still see more cyclists carry on through than cars.

[kwackers]

Cars do it around here a lot more than bikes simply because there are a lot more bikes than cars in this area.

The majority of them are those that believe that the amber light means "floor it", and so the lights go red just before they get to the junction yet they carry on. At the main road junction by me I can expect to see one or two cars pass the stop line moments after the light has gone red. This is not just a one off, it happens on virtually every change during busier periods.

On a few occasion I see some that go over the red several seconds after the change, for instance the other day as we approached TLs, in a car, they went amber. We had plenty of time and room to pull up easily before the lights and so did. the car behind us pulled out and shot past us, and through the red lights.

However, if we are talking about the case where the lights have been red for some time when the vehicle arrives at the stop line, then I still see more cyclists carry on through than cars.

My experience is similar, except I don't see many bikes and so haven't seen that many RLJ.

[EdinburghFixed]

It's definitely a different pattern with cars than for bikes. You'd have to be quite brave/talented/lucky to shoot steady reds in a car without being t-boned!

What I see much more is a car accelerating to go through on amber, and if it hits red, tough! Some push their luck to the tune of a few seconds, even if traffic is now pulling out from another entrance! As Si says there are junctions where you can see cars pushing through illegally at a dozen per minute. This is far more often than I see cyclists blasting through, whatever the tabloids say.

I have been riding with a helmet camera for the last few months and so far caught only one RLJ'ing cyclist! Just one!

Plus if you multiply the danger of a car shooting a red at anything from 25 - 40mph, to the danger of a cyclist pootering through at 10-15mph, you can see how badly motorists stack up in comparison.

[Si]

I have been riding with a helmet camera for the last few months and so far caught only one RLJ'ing cyclist! Just one!

Ah, but you obviously don't ride via the traffic light controlled entrance to a university campus

[thirdcrank]

Car drivers routinely ignore traffic lights at stop by setting off at red + amber (= stop) not stopping when they could safely do so at amber (= stop) and increasingly ignoring the first few moments of red (= stop.) I don't see many car drivers completely ignoring lights but that is partly because they have fewer problems with signals that do not detect their presence. Often when car drivers do completely ignore traffic lights it's because they were unfamiliar with the area and did not see them. Hard to believe but true.

I see any number of cyclists who treat light-controlled junctions as an obstacle course.

Last week during the evening peak when it was still dark I saw two teenage lads on one bike (without lights,) approaching a light-controlled junction downhill at some speed on the footway. The lights were red against them and traffic across their path was continuous and moving at 25 mph +. They shot straight across the junction without hesitation, deviation (and certainly no repetition ) parting the gap between the nose-to-tail traffic. I was a number of vehicles back with a good view but it was so sudden that the driver whose bows they shot across did not even have time to brake. Either by good luck or good management they judged the gap exactly. I cannot imagine that they will be so lucky every time.

[661-Pete-oldversion]

I believe there is a working definition of what constitutes jumping the lights, for a motor vehicle: presumably a calculation based on the speed of the vehicle and the time after the amber phase that it crosses the stopline. I would expect and hope that where there are functioning T/L enforcement cameras, they would be attuned to this calculation and act accordingly. But I have my doubts - seeing the number of motorists who go straight through not only on the amber but several seconds into the red, and probably getting off scot-free.

An opposite example (and being smug). Last night I was - for a change - driving through town. A set of lights changed to amber when I was about twenty feet away. I would have been perfectly within my rights to go on - I think - but there was nothing following me, I was only doing about 15mph, and there were pedestrians waiting to cross. So I 'floored it'. Not the accelerator. The brake. A fairly smartish stop - not an 'emergency' stop though. Perhaps it was unwise of me? Anyway I saw the pedestrians' jaws almost 'flooring it' onto the pavement. They weren't expecting that! I smiled.

As regards the OP - I would guess that - on routes I normally follow, the proportion of motorists jumping the lights - in the sense described above - appears to outnumber the proportion of cyclists.

[2Tubs]

Go to the Scott Arms Junction at Great Barr.

Sit though one change of lights at rush hour and I guarantee you’ll see at least 1 car jump a red light from each of the 4 directions. More likely 2 or 3.

Same for most the traffic lights on my commute from Great Barr into Birmingham and back again of an evening. At the Scott Arms I even had one car pull up behind me as I stopped at a red (not amber, red; not that it makes a difference), reverse to get some room and then go around me shooting the light. You can imagine just how late he went through that!

Gazza

[moultoneer]

I often use a Toucan crossing on a local dual carriageway with a 40mph limit (itself widely ignored). There is always at least one vehicle that will jump the red light after it changes. Once, a car even ducked into the inside lane to pass a car that had stopped.

[paulah]

I was only doing about 15mph, and there were pedestrians waiting to cross. So I 'floored it'. Not the accelerator. The brake. A fairly smartish stop - not an 'emergency' stop though. Perhaps it was unwise of me? Anyway I saw the pedestrians' jaws almost 'flooring it' onto the pavement..

Round here it's usually the opposite - use a pelican crossing on the 4 lane A6 when the traffic is not light but free flowing and there's probably a 50% chance that an approaching vehicle will noticeably speed up on amber and go through on red. And when the traffic is queueing it's unusual that there isn't a car blocking the pelican crossing or moves forward in the queue to block it after the lights turn to amber.

I have on several occassions witnessed pedestrians start to cross when 3 lanes have stopped and the car in the 4th is a good couple of stopping distances away, and doesn't stop. Once I was the pedestrian and the car came to a stop just touching me.

It probably all depends on the route, level of congestion and type of junction, but as a pedestrian I certainly witness far more transgressions by motorists. What's noticeable when writing this is that the problems are all on dedicated pedestrian crossings - not road junctions - I wonder if motorists don't notice this kind of RLJ because it poses no danger to them?

[Thomas125]

Ok from my personal experience as a car driver I have to make a judgement call if a light changes to amber within say 20 feet of the junction, if the car behind me is right up my tail I would consider it safer to carry on through than brake very hard and risk being rammed from the rear. You also have to jusdge whether you would be able to stop in time for the junction. All this being said though the highway code cleary states if the lights are on green you should approach them at a speed to allow you to stop if they do change suddenly.

As a cyclist I don't run red lights, it's one of those things that give us lot a bad name and I'm doing my best not to propogate the ill feeling. Also getting T-Boned in your car is one thing getting T-boned by a 4x4 on your racer is quite another

[Mike Sales]

I've just seen another report of a motorist jumping a red light at at a level crossing and getting, luckily, only damaged. I've never heard of a cyclist getting hit this way, though it must happen occasionally, but drivers seem to get killed regularly.

Mike Sales

[skrx]

I've just seen another report of a motorist jumping a red light at at a level crossing and getting, luckily, only damaged. I've never heard of a cyclist getting hit this way, though it must happen occasionally, but drivers seem to get killed regularly.

I cross one of two level crossings every day, and I'm always surprised the car drivers don't go faster to try and beat the lowering barriers. They're full barriers (right across the road), so there's no chance of zig-zagging once they're all down. There is a footbridge, and a few cyclists (and most pedestrians) take the bridge, but I take a rest instead

Pedestrians are sometimes killed. There's probably so few cyclists that the statistics don't really register.


I'll admit to RLJing certain lights. There's one T-junction with very little traffic entering from the side road, and RLJing it makes it easy to go from the left lane to the turn-right lane. Several pedestrian crossings here are "pinch points", where the road narrows, and if there's no pedestrian around I'll go over them, it's better than having the cars trying to squeeze past as soon as the lights go green.
I don't RLJ proper junctions. I noticed a ghost bike recently, locked against a traffic light on a big junction -- a good deterrent for RLJing, but probably also a deterrent for cycling.
(And I've never RLJd the level crossings. Standing behind the barrier when a train goes past 2m away at 60mph+ should put anyone off doing that!)

[EdinburghFixed]

I have been riding with a helmet camera for the last few months and so far caught only one RLJ'ing cyclist! Just one!

Ah, but you obviously don't ride via the traffic light controlled entrance to a university campus

Actually I live over the road from the biggest campus in Edinburgh! But I take your point, students aren't awake when I do my commute

One of the interesting things I have noticed since I became more aware, is the tendency for mixed groups to jump lights, i.e. quite a lot of students seem to ride to uni with friends who are walking. They all cross the road as and when there's space (although the cyclists among them are therefore breaking the law). Who do we condemn, the whole group, or just the cyclists? It would be hard to run up to such a group, and scream at the 1 or 2 cyclists for their outrageous behaviour when they are just going along with a dozen people on foot. They could easily dismount, they might argue, but why bother?

Hrm.

[meic]

While driving I often aproach traffic lights prepared to stop if they change. As I start to stop for the amber light, the car behind will frequently accelerate and overtake past me.

Another very common occurence is the "unstopable train of cars".
This is a line of cars all inches apart and the first squeezes through a red light and all the following cars just follow the one in front, preventing the traffic with right of way from getting their turn.