Cycling UK Forum

Sorry I have to disagree that reporting such an incident will have any benefit to you. I've reported several incidents to the police where I have been abused and had bottles, cans and apples thrown at me from passing cars and the police have done absolutely bugger all. At first I felt good that I had done as much as I could that some how some one some where was collating the figures and would then have a Eureka moment and assemble a crack police team to combat the menace. Sadly these incidents still occur to me and others. But when it dawned on me, that for every time I did report these incidents I was met with basically bone idle and ignorant cops, it became easier for me to realise that the police weren't genuinely concerned or interested so continuing to report them to the police was pointless. It was only adding insult to injury for me and making me angry. So now when cycling I look behind a lot more frequently when ever I hear a car approaching and eyeball them. I also carry a camera, admittedly not a head cam or rear mounted camera but a camera none the less. In the last 5 years or so I have not had anyone throw anything at me but I still get the occasional d***head shouting abuse from a car as it passes but now I have already seen them and can anticipate it so just ignore them. I try to cultivate a don't mess with me look which seems to work. But honestly forget reporting these incidents to the police. It is a total waste of time. FWIW the police should be investigating these instances of "happy slapping" as assaults. It is really hard to get them to take the details and even speak to the people let alone consider that an offence has been committed. The police prefer sitting behind their desks and when they are let out they look for easy targets such as people going about their lawful business assaulting and battering them .

It is highly possible to get some lazy cop who is not interested, but you do not know that until the incident is reported. One incident I reported the police were very interested in, it was not the first case of cyclist harrasment in the area and they very much wanted to get it sorted.

Piedwagtail, it does not matter what your circumstances are, and it could be argued you were aiding your own recovery; Cycling to improve your general fitness and strength after your back injury, fresh air, exercise etc. on a beautiful spring to help lift your mood and aid with recovery from depression.
All these aids to your recovery have now been disrupted by some idiot, possibly extending your reliance on benefits and reducing your chances of getting back into work............... Why should you not have a case to sue them and I'm sure the benefits people would be very interested to know of it. Indeed if you go on claiming, it might sound like some made up story so you might continue claiming for longer (looking at it from a very warped angle), so why should you not claim against them. Even if you do not win anything it will at least send out the message to all involved that your condition was exacerbated by this incident/recovery delayed.

In these days of priorities, targets and the rest, the only stuff that has any hope of being tackled is the stuff that meets a target. Even things that are prioritised may come up against resistance but that doesn't alter my basic point. The bullying and harassment of cyclists by people in motor cars is not even recognised as an issue by many cyclists. I'd go so far as to say that when this has come up on here before and elsewhere, the line taken by some who have not experienced it is that the targets have probably provoked it by their own behaviour.

I'm not talking about careless driving but cars being maneuvered - usually when overtaking - so that the passenger can: surprise the cyclist by shouting, sometimes abuse, frequently round here a noise which is a cross between 'boo' and the bleat of a sheep*; pushing the rider or attempting to interfere with the bike; throwing things, spraying liquids; assaults.

Clue: barriers to cycling.

If cyclists as a group are not united in taking this seriously, it's unlikely that anybody else will.

* One anecdote from many. I was stationary with my shopping bike when a mother and toddler walked past me on Queen Street in Morley (main shopping street.) Toddler went 'Booargh!' or similar at me. Shocked mother's remonstration was met with 'Daddy always does that when he overtakes a cyclist.'

eileithyia wrote:It is highly possible to get some lazy cop who is not interested, but you do not know that until the incident is reported. One incident I reported the police were very interested in, it was not the first case of cyclist harrasment in the area and they very much wanted to get it sorted.

And what was the outcome?

On the occasions I have reported incidents the cops they have been indifferent to the point of being rude and obstructive. They have also given the impression of being indolent, incompetent and arrogant. One slob stretched himself and his big gut across the reception counter and yawned as I related an incident . Total waste of time.

Ivor Tingting wrote:

eileithyia wrote:It is highly possible to get some lazy cop who is not interested, but you do not know that until the incident is reported. One incident I reported the police were very interested in, it was not the first case of cyclist harrasment in the area and they very much wanted to get it sorted.

And what was the outcome?

On the occasions I have reported incidents the cops they have been indifferent to the point of being rude and obstructive. They have also given the impression of being indolent, incompetent and arrogant. One slob stretched himself and his big gut across the reception counter and yawned as I related an incident . Total waste of time.

The police came around to the house and took a full statement, they were very concerned as similar situations to mine had been reported by a variety of types of cyclists, unfortunately these had all been at night and it had been very difficult to obtain a Reg., they were also all in a fairly compact area. They were certainly logging all the incidents incase they finally got some identifying information.
At the time it did not re-occur and I was only living in the area temporarily anyway, moving away a few months later.

Ivor Tingting has missed the point. If reported as an attack on a cyclist then I'm sure to Police would treat it with indifference, but reported as a sexual assault, where there are targets to be met.... Yes they'll do everything they can. Call me a cynic or a realist if you like, but I'm sure I'm right.

See my post in the "Assault" thread

Ivor,

You need to write to your local MPs and have them look into the police attitude you have encountered. You also need to write to the Chief Constable and your Local Police Authority. http://www.police.uk/forces.htm The Police authority are responsible for the quality of service you get from your local constabulary. They will be concerned at the attitude you have experienced from the officers. You should explain that you feel that physical assaults are not being dealt with in your area.

In my opinion, physical assaults (especially with sexual and sexist motivation) are a serious matter and they need to be reported.

The fact that you feel this way about reporting incidents is a concern. It doesn't matter whether you feel that the specific case will be solved or followed up but you really must report an assault so that it is recorded.

Touch wood, I have never been physically assaulted or verbally abused while riding in NW London. I hope it stays that way.

I would suggest reporting any assault to the police. The level of response will depend on both the seriousness of the assault and the evidence available.

For example a slap with no injury and no reg number known. A minimum response would be a crime report recording the assault. An unprovoked assault on anyone walking down the street would be recorded so why not an assault on a cyclist? Other steps (if we assume the make and colour of car was known) would include checking for similar reports which could be linked and checking any nearby CCTV footage around the time of the incident.

If the reg number is known then it should be logged. Our local system means we can log locally info on reg numbers where the incident isn't serious enough to put on the Police National Computer. This could mean the reported incident being linked to past or future incidents.

The registered keeper should be interviewed. Depending on the circumstances this could either be at his home address or he could be detained and taken to the station for interview. For example if a car was slowed down to 15mph and driven close to a cyclist to allow the passenger to commit the assault then the driver is equally guilty and can be treated as a suspect.

Thirdcrank was correct when he said reg keepers can only be required to name drivers for RTA offences. On the other hand perhaps the driver at the time of an incident was a 20 yr old male and enquiries establish the reg keeper is a 20 yr old male who is the only person insured to drive the car. He's then my suspect unless he credibly names another driver. In that case the enquiry would then look at RTA no insurance charges as well as the assault. Or maybe the reg keeper is a middle aged woman with a 20 yr old son as a named driver etc. A reg number is only a starting point but it is a good one. Another consideration would be if the vehicle was driving carelessly or recklessly prior to or after the assault. That's your RTA offence meaning the reg keeper can be required to name the driver - even if he names himself.

In one unprovoked assault in my force where a cyclist had her jacket grabbed as she was pushed off her bike the jacket was sent for DNA analysis for contact DNA transfer.

All this assumes both that the incident is reported and the victim is willing to give a statement. Many times non injury/collision road rage incidents are reported immediately by mobile phone then the reporter later decides that if police action first requires them to give a statement then they would rather not bother. This can be a reasonable reaction. I have spent enough hours sitting in court waiting rooms that I understand that people might choose, after giving it some thought, not to proceed with a complaint. At least I get paid when my day is wasted sitting about at court.

If both the parties live locally there is more scope for alternative resolutions like warnings. For enquiries that need to be passed to other areas a frequent rule (due to volume of work) is that they will interview with a view to charging. They will not trace suspect to warn them.

Finally there is no doubt that the way the police deal with some incidents is not always what it could be. If you report what is clearly a crime, like assault, and feel it is not being dealt with properly I would suggest you ask what action is being taken. Is this being recorded as a crime? What is the crime reference number? Who is the enquiry officer? If you aren't satisfied then there is a good complaints procedure. Use it.

Many crimes are difficult or impossible to prove. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be recorded and any possible enquiries made.

One incident I reported the police were very interested in, it was not the first case of cyclist harrasment in the area and they very much wanted to get it sorted.

That's the case round here too. We had two incidents in a short space of time where cyclists were pushed off their bikes by a passenger in a passing car. One, sadly was killed, the other had serious back injuries. The local rag made it front page news with quotes from the police saying they wanted such incidents reported. Clearly being actually pushed off the bike is far more serious than just having a bag of chocolate drops thrown at you (as happened to me the following week although sadly the bag was empty) but it did get make it look as if the police were taking anti-cycling incidents seriously.

Nobody was ever caught but the man with back injuries was unable to work again (as I recall he was in his sixties) and some time later the paper ran another piece saying how the incident had ruined his life - no job, still in pain, depressed etc. I'm fortunate that I've never had to report such a thing, but I think I'd be cautiously optimistic the police would be interested if I had to do so.

Jan

emergency_pants wrote:Ivor,

You need to write to your local MPs and have them look into the police attitude you have encountered. You also need to write to the Chief Constable and your Local Police Authority. http://www.police.uk/forces.htm The Police authority are responsible for the quality of service you get from your local constabulary. They will be concerned at the attitude you have experienced from the officers. You should explain that you feel that physical assaults are not being dealt with in your area.

It's not just physical assaults it is all transgressions against cyclists. Although I was barged off my bike feb '08 as I attempted to cycle around a young thug walking in a group who were occupying the pavement, cycle lane (on the road) and the road. The local police did absolutely bugger all despite being on the scene purely by chance several minutes later and me suffering a huge bruise to my right thigh area, elbow and cut fingers.

emergency_pants wrote:In my opinion, physical assaults (especially with sexual and sexist motivation) are a serious matter and they need to be reported.

Unfortunately the police choose if they are going to do anything and the offence(s) they consider most suitable .

emergency_pants wrote:..............but you really must report an assault so that it is recorded.

Must I ???? I've done that too often. No more. The police only add insult to injury. I look after myself and don't rely on others. When you are out in the middle of nowhere you're on your own. I now regularly look behind me as soon as I hear cars approaching, eyeballing the cars and their occupants trying to cultivate a Jack Nicholson The Shining Look with a touch of Clint Eastwood Dirty Harry as they pass by. It seems to work a treat. Cars now give me a very wide berth and people walking near to cycle paths step out my way quickly. I am still couteous in my style of cycling I always slow down or use my bell politely and give thanks where appropriate, but I try to give the impression well I hope I do of "don't mess with me". This doesn't fill me with joy but if it makes for a safer ride then I'll put up with doing it.

emergency_pants wrote:Touch wood, I have never been physically assaulted or verbally abused while riding in NW London. I hope it stays that way.

Wasn't my experience when I last went down to London getting off at Finsbury Park station then riding up Crouch Hill to Two Wheels Good to buy my Vaude Aqua Plus rear panniers october/november last year. Some nutter about 25-30 years old , 5'10" in a VW Golf Gti pulled straight out of a side turn narrowly missing me. I shouted "Aye!" out of fright more than anything. He decamps straight for me like some leopard circling it's prey saying he was going to waste me. We had a stand off in the middle of the road on Crouch Hill. I was in a bit of trouble as he was giving me signals he might be a gangster. He had a thick black padded bomber jacket, white Armani shoes so wasn't sure whether he could be concealing a gun or knife. Very frightening. But I tried not to show weakness, tried to look straight through him. A hoodie passing by on the pavement was encouraging him to do me over which was unnerving to say the least. Not the sort of encouragement I needed. No one stopped, in fact 3 cars drove around us, one nearly over my bike. It was quite obvious I was in the throws of being assaulted. Anyway after a good 5 minutes maybe a little more, which aged me by about 10 years in this time, he got in his bling car and drove away slowly. Looking back should I have reported it? No.......no chance. Just forget it and move on. Which I did and put it down to just meeting yet another of life's scum.

jan19 wrote:

One incident I reported the police were very interested in, it was not the first case of cyclist harrasment in the area and they very much wanted to get it sorted.

That's the case round here too. We had two incidents in a short space of time where cyclists were pushed off their bikes by a passenger in a passing car. One, sadly was killed, the other had serious back injuries. The local rag made it front page news with quotes from the police saying they wanted such incidents reported. Clearly being actually pushed off the bike is far more serious than just having a bag of chocolate drops thrown at you (as happened to me the following week although sadly the bag was empty) but it did get make it look as if the police were taking anti-cycling incidents seriously.

Nobody was ever caught but the man with back injuries was unable to work again (as I recall he was in his sixties) and some time later the paper ran another piece saying how the incident had ruined his life - no job, still in pain, depressed etc. I'm fortunate that I've never had to report such a thing, but I think I'd be cautiously optimistic the police would be interested if I had to do so.

Jan

One would hope so Jan. Terrible that a cyclist lost their life. That presumably would have been investigated properly or if there were no witnesses or in the absence of any other explanatory evidence I bet the cyclist's death was recorded as 'accidental'. Really it should have been murder if we speculate that he/she was pushed off by a passenger leaning from a passing car.

I have to say my experience of this, a few years ago, was very different from how Ivor describes it. I was fortunate to get a reg. number and description of the car; I had (after a few weeks wait) a named constable assigned to my case, who gave me a contact number: he did all the work, took my statement, tracked down the driver who was obliged to 'shop' his passenger to cover his embarrassment: said passenger was hauled before the nick and 'cautioned', hence getting a police record for the rest of his life. Job done!

On another similar occasion, years earlier, I was less lucky. I had no numberplate, and my description ('white van, no discernible livery') was just too vague. On that occasion the police were sympathetic but there was little they could do: there are a lot of White Vans and a fair proportion are driven by rogues!

Luck of the draw maybe?

One would hope so Jan. Terrible that a cyclist lost their life. That presumably would have been investigated properly or if there were no witnesses or in the absence of any other explanatory evidence I bet the cyclist's death was recorded as 'accidental'. Really it should have been murder if we speculate that he/she was pushed off by a passenger leaning from a passing car.

As I recall, in the case of the man who died, he'd been riding with a friend but they had got a little way apart. The slower cyclist saw the vehicle overtake his companion and saw the passenger push him off his bike. Unfortunately he was too far away to take a numberplate and the description of the car wasn't sufficient for the police to trace it. I think they did try - it was in the local news for some time.

Jan

byegad wrote:Ivor Tingting has missed the point.

There seems to be a common, anti-police theme running through many of his posts - I wonder how much his own attitude dictates the type of response he gets........
Anyway, I thought he was leaving the forum at one time, but he seems to have returned with few constructive comments to add.

Steve

Greybeard wrote:

byegad wrote:Ivor Tingting has missed the point.

There seems to be a common, anti-police theme running through many of his posts - I wonder how much his own attitude dictates the type of response he gets........

No, I haven't missed the point. And your point or are you deliberately being provocative? Other posters have told of police who weren't interested when they reported incidents to them.

Greybeard wrote:Anyway, I thought he was leaving the forum at one time, but he seems to have returned with few constructive comments to add.
Steve

No, I haven't left. Obviously you don't contribute that often or you would have read my posts and would not be so disparaging...........or are you a lurker? Pray, where are your constructive comments I only see destructive ones?