Police car chase...

[661-Pete-oldversion]

...was not all it seems, apparently. I just noticed this story, and frankly I'm shocked. After all the threads on this forum about dangerous D/C's and the A23 in particular because of Marie Vesco. Yes I know our policemen have got to be trained somehow, but surely not this!

[larfingravy]

So how would you suggest they get trained then?

[Cunobelin]

The point is that this is a controlled exercise with records, assessments, debriefing and an outcome.

I can think of some dodgy training I have done, including carrying live ammunition in London....

[Richard]

I understand your concern but I have to disagree with you on this one. If they didn't train in this way; which has the advantage of a highly trained driver as the "target"; the danger involved in having to do it for real would be significantly increased. The only other alternative is to not undertake chases which, in my view, is simply not an option. Some training could be done on a track but it's simply just not representative.

[DaveP]

So how would you suggest they get trained then?

I would suggest that they train in a context where the publics natural concern is recognised as legitimate. If they dont think they can justify what they are doing then they shouldnt be doing it.
The attitude that "We know best what's good for you" is more worrying than their driving.

[larfingravy]

TBH why does a memeber of the public ring a local rag when he sees some cop cars shooting around?

The reporter has just got upset at being told by someone of 'low' standing in the organisation (not meant derogatory)
'I'm not telling you and I'm not telling you my name'.
The reporter then calls press office who give officer's name but no more detail.

Upset reporter at local rag then makes a poor story out of a non story.

I'm sure Sussex Police can justify doing it.

I'm more sure The Argus is in dire need of increased sales.

[bensonboo]

When I had involvement with similar situations years ago the 'target' driver was kept informed of possible public cars or bikes or pedestrians by the helicopter keeping a watch in front of them.
It does seem poor reporting though, once it became clear what has happened why report that they were "trying to bump each other off the road." Clearly not so.

[661-Pete-oldversion]

Ok a bit controversial and maybe a bit of journalistic histrionics there! I just dug up another account of the same story, in a different local rag (not on 't web) which is a bit more even handed.

I remember that some years ago the emergency services staged a large-scale train crash near our house, again as a training exercise. But advance notice was given and warning signs posted. Perhaps that's what should have been done here: notices posted on the road in advance. Or would that have attracted the 'wrong sort' of spectators?

[larfingravy]

That's not a bad idea.
If they are training like that then maybe some road signs notifying the public about a police training exercise.
Certainly if you're cycling along there it would make you more prepared for it!

[thirdcrank]

TBH why does a memeber of the public ring a local rag when he sees some cop cars shooting around?

The reporter has just got upset at being told by someone of 'low' standing in the organisation (not meant derogatory)
'I'm not telling you and I'm not telling you my name'.
The reporter then calls press office who give officer's name but no more detail.

Upset reporter at local rag then makes a poor story out of a non story.

I'm sure Sussex Police can justify doing it.

I'm more sure The Argus is in dire need of increased sales.

Hole in one.

Having said that, it was something that was always likely attract press interest - loads of people ring the media whenever they see something unusual and it's something you might expect the force's own media department to be aware of in case of queries. It's like staging reconstructions for ''Crimewatch' and all the rest of it. More generally, refusing to comment just makes the press assume there is something to hide. OTOH, the foot soldiers are often concerned at being upgraded to 'A police spokesman.'

The police and media - especially the local media - depend on each other. The police need all the help they can get with appeals for witnesses, publications of warning that a particular type of crime is prevalent etc. The media rely on a constant stream of crime and human interest stuff. I'll bet there's been some gnashing of teeth over this.

As far as the driver training goes, if it's going to be done, the public roads are probably the only place available.

[Ivor Tingting]

Of course Sussex Police will have carried out a thorough risk asessment and have notified the other emergency services of the exercise just in case........ However perpared or careful they think are to minimise risks to the public......accidents do happen. Would it then emerge that the operation was a training exercise? It might take some time. Driving can still be dangerous even if committed by police officers on a non emergency.

Maybe a car thief should use the police defence - none of your business, absolutely nothing to do with you I am training for when I am being pursued so it is allowed .

Aren't there numerous old airfields in and around Sussex plod could use rather than putting Jo Public at risk?

[kwackers]

I'm only aware of one incident where someone was killed in a training exercise. If you believe police should occasionally take part in pursuits of the bad guys then I guess you should expect them to train on the actual roads.

Don't know about anyone else, but I don't think I'd be too happy if pursuit training was either on a wide flat airfield or only happened during actual pursuits. Given the speeds they drive at through towns and villages I'm happier in the knowledge that they've practised many times in controlled conditions - so they *know* when it's getting too dangerous and call it off, or so they *know* how to bring it to a halt safely.

[Cunobelin]

Informing the public and clearing the roads would hardly make the exercise realistic - would it?

[DaveP]

The police and media - especially the local media - depend on each other. The police need all the help they can get with appeals for witnesses, publications of warning that a particular type of crime is prevalent etc. The media rely on a constant stream of crime and human interest stuff. I'll bet there's been some gnashing of teeth over this.

As far as the driver training goes, if it's going to be done, the public roads are probably the only place available.

The police also say that they need public support, which makes it all the more disturbing that they failed to treat an entirely natural public interest with any show of respect.

BTW I entirely accept that some training has to be done on public roads. If the helicopter was "public spotting" I would regard that as a better approach than putting up warning signs which would certainly attract an "audience".

[7_lives_left]

It's not just the police that do on road training, the fire service does it too. Someone in my workplace has an additional job as a part time (retained) fireman. He drives the truck. Whenever they get a new vehicle, they get training on it, including driving it as if they going to a fire with lights and sirens. They have a driving instructor sitting next to them giving instructions and accessing them.

On one of these occasions, the instructor told him to head on to the motorway in the direction of London. The instructor told him "Put the sirens on and keep going straight on until I tell you otherwise" and then sat back while my workmate drove 40 miles into central London with the road becoming narrower and more congested with commuter traffic.

The other thing he tells me is that the fire truck always seems to be about 6 inches narrower on the outward journey compared with when they are driving it back to the station.