Cycling UK Forum

What are the advantages then of going for higher spec shifters (this seems to be where the big difference in money is). What are you paying for?
Personally I think lighter is a waste if you are carrying any spare weight yourself (myself ) - it would be better to lay off the pies a bit

Better shifting? more robust (last longer)?

At what point does it make such a little difference to us mere mortals to become bling rather than a worthwhile addition.
e.g is sora good enough, or is 105 really where it's at and the ultegra stuff is of little value unless you are a racer or "king of bling"

I understand that it always a trade off and you get diminishing returns the higher you go.

I am a musician and I can relate it to guitars. A chinese made £100 strat copy is good enough for a beginner and will be OK enough to do the job, but as soon as you are hooked £500 will buy you a mexican made instrument that will be good enough even up to pro level. £1000 will get you an american instrument that in reality is only very slightly better than the mexican instrument and 99% of people wouldn't hear the difference. For £2000 you can buy top of the range custom shop. Super king of bling where only pro musicians would really hear the difference.

How does that compere to group sets? Or is it not quite as simple as that?

more money = slightly less weight and a badge with more pose-worthiness.

Actually, as you get out of the lowest of the low groupsets you'll find that the next one up can often work a bit better, but as you start to get into the upper reaches I've found that there is little noticeable difference in how well they work. For instance I've got some DA DP brakes and some XTR V brakes - in neither case do they seem to stop me better than something that cost substantially less. On the other hand, I've noticed that my XTR does shift better and more reliably than any other groupset I've had. But at the same time I found that Sora shifted better and more reliably than 501.

The next obvious question is: "just why do you need an 11th sprocket at the back when 10 was already more than enough?"



edit:

Si wrote: On the other hand, I've noticed that my XTR does <i>[inappropriate word removed]</i> better and more reliably than any other groupset I've had.

There is an "F" in shift!

PW wrote:

Si wrote: On the other hand, I've noticed that my XTR does <i>[inappropriate word removed]</i> better and more reliably than any other groupset I've had.

There is an "F" in shift!

Watch out for the Sora shifters. They have a small button like lever on the side to change down the gears. This is tough to reach if on the drops, so a lot of people avoid them. All the rest of the range use the twin paddle type system. Chain sets are also expensive so these tend to be specced down on shop built bikes (one of the reasons I build my bikes, I hate it when the bits that look good in the ads are the cheap bits from a higher spec and the bits that make the difference or weigh the most are from who knows where). Expensive does not mean it will last longer, so you can argue any advantage in shifting quality etc. diminishes over time. Most the difference will only show on a stop watch, what do you want it for?

PW wrote:

Si wrote: On the other hand, I've noticed that my XTR does <i>[inappropriate word removed]</i> better and more reliably than any other groupset I've had.

There is an "F" in shift!

d'oh

Must be my subconscious taking over when talking about shimano

I've got 2 bikes, 1 with 105's, 1 with tiagra. Not found any difference, although its reported that 105's are more stable. i.e. dont need readjusting so often.

I have Ultegra STI's on two bikes and 105 STI's on one and can't tell the difference.
The best shift of all though that needs the least amount adjustment(in fact I can't remember the last time I had to adjust them)and are ultra reliable are some 7sp RSX STI's(mid to late 90's) I have on the Dawes. I also have a second pair that I ran on another bike (before upgrading it to 9sp Ultegra) and they have done 60,000miles in all weathers without a peep.
The 7sp change is far sweeter than the 9sp too IMHO
The high mileage RSX STI's were taken off a bike with a 7sp 105 G/set (due to a broken frame)the whole groupset had done the same mileage and the only things that had been changed were hub cones and balls,once,and numerous cassettes/chains of course.
IMHO Tiagra STI's and above are good stuff,Ultegra/XT hubs are the bees knees.

I also have a Hydrid knock about bike with Tourney mechs and cheap 7spx3 cheap shifters on and a screw on 7sp freewheel,shifts like a dream,longevity doesn't really matter as mileage is nominal.

NOTE:-Boys,please stop putting down Shimano, if it weren't for them we tourists would be in a sorry state as Mr Campagnolo has abandoned us.

BTW If short term is the subject then don't buy a Powertap hub,I was told at the w/end by someone who had changed the bearings on one in less than 9 months!!! and no wonder when he showed me the old ones,they looked like they were out of a sewing machine (ie very small),to cap it all he told me the magnet on the spindle to give the computer a reading was held on by a couple of wraps of insulation tape!!!!! this was an £800 hub!!!

So if I read you correctly while ultegra/105 etc are very nice to have. Really once you've reached Tiagra it's more for the serious athlete/image conscious (I am not criticising anyone It's your money spend it how you like!)

I know some people get fiercely brand loyal, but I don't know enough about Campag stuff to comment and wouldn't know my veloce from my elbow

I am still researching bikes and trying to make my mind up on how much to spend. I didn't want to post another which bike for x hundred pounds thread.

I am really getting back into my cycling. I used to do a lot of mountain biking now it's all road riding, losing weight and getting lots faster.

I don't really want to spend loads of cash on a blingy bike that I'm not able to take advantage off. A carbon fibre bike with ultegra set up would be wasted on me.
I'd rather save the money for lots of soreen and practice burning it off and who knows in the future I may be up to it

If this is what you wil do, consider an audax bike rather than a full out road racing bike. They come with deeper (57 mm) drop brakes letting you fit wider tyres and mudguards. If all is well, they should also have lower and more realistic gearing.
Willem

I ride a bike with sora levers and generally I like them. I can't easily reach the little button whilst on the drops but when on the hoods it's a nice action. The key thing that I don't like is that my front shifter does not offer any trim function (the instructions say it should but it doesn't) which slightly limits the range of gears per front sprocket. Also (again I don't have any experience of this) I've heard that the Tiagra, 105 etc shifters can be repaired whereas sora can't.

Other things to consider. Do you want 9 speed or 10 speed? Surely more is better? Well it depends on what you want to do. If you were building a tourer/audax and wanted low gears then you might want an MTB rear cluster (road shifters work MTB rear mechs just fine - they don't do front mechs BTW), but MTB groupsets only do 9-speed to by choosing 10-speed you may limit your choices. However if you are a racing snake then you may wish to ignore this, but don't believe the idea that having low gears is a sign of weakness. Road bike gears tend to be set up with a lot of very similar gears that are a lot higher than an MTB would have.

I'm sure that pose factor is a lot to do with choice. The differences in shifting speed and weight are unlikely to make a difference unless you're going to race. Worth noting that I spoke to SJS cycles (good online shop) about what rear mech to get and they advised me that spending more money did not buy longevity so I replaced like with like (i.e. fairly cheap).

More expensive groupsets tend to have less plastic and more metal. The metal is also more likely to be alloy rather than steel and the most expensive groupsets make extensive use of carbon fibre and titanium.

Beyond Tiagra/105 I don't think it's worth the money upgrading. I've used Sora and have no problems with it. I currently have Tiagra/Deore on my tourer and I'm happy with it.

I also have bikes with Campag on, and whilst I don't like the cheap Xenon, Mirage and Veloce are durable and good value, though I think they've stopped doing Mirage and Xenon.

I think it's pointless paying over your ideal budget to get something better as an investment in durability because in no time at all it will be old stuff. also, remember the general rule is that anything cheaper than the stuff owned by the person passing judgment is crap while more expensive stuff is a waste of money. You will hear few cyclists saying, I bought this but that would have been cheaper but just as good.

You will hear few cyclists saying, I bought this but that would have been cheaper but just as good.

Well, I will happily stand in that small group. I would have been just as happy with the functionality of something a fair bit cheaper than my Dura Ace and XTR. Even XT and 105 doesn't seem that much better than Sora or DX/LX/Deore for my needs. Of course, that doesn't stop me buying the flash stuff when I see it at a price similar to the cheap stuff....might as well have the pose-worthiness of the flash badge if it costs no more....moi, shallow?

This is all great advice. Thank you.
It does seem to be a case of marketing over substance up to a point. You can't blame the manufactures for creating a situation where someone will throw loads more money at something for "upgrading" to a better badge. It seems to be the way of the world these days.

But you have all really said what I thought, that over a particular point (tiagra it seems, although sora is also good) the benefits are so very small as to not be worth the investment.

Si wrote:[Of course, that doesn't stop me buying the flash stuff when I see it at a price similar to the cheap stuff....might as well have the pose-worthiness of the flash badge if it costs no more....moi, shallow?

I don't think that is a big deal. I don't think there's anything wrong with buying the flashier stuff, if it is what you want.

It's knowing what you want that's often the problem