Cycling UK Forum

All I know about countersteering is that I must somehow have learned to do it. Otherwise I'd be falling off a lot more .

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but for a certain speed range it's best to steer one way first to initiate a lean. The steering is then turned the other way, and the direction of initial lean is maintained.

So for one direction of lean there are right and left steering inputs. Conversely for a left steering input, there are right and left directions of initial lean depending on the cycle's speed.

Would it be simpler if a turn to the left always produced a lean to the left, and a turn to the right generated a rightward lean?

I am aware that people have developed their own riding styles over the years. All I am after is some comment on the validity of such a mechanical quest.

Kind regards, Peter

I'm not sure if I've understood you correctly, but I think it's unnecessary and poor practice to, say, steer out into the road before turning left. You mention 'for a certain speed range' but in ordinary on-road cycling you should slow down before turning to allow a proper turn. (Different considerations apply to races on closed roads.)

If I can quote from Cyclecraft for the second time in one evening, in a section headed Collision avoidance techniques, JF describes initially steering the 'wrong' way to help a sharp turn the other 'right' way. Perhaps that's what you had in mind?

Yuo're right, in all two wheel steering you actually steer away from the side you want to lean the bike. The actual movement is normally tiny but it is a good tactic if you want to jink round a suddenly seen pothole to make a larger than normal movement in order to initiate a sudden swerve.

I found getting my head around this was hard, at the time I rode a motorbike and tried to consciously do this. Surprisingly it is so.

It's perfectly valid. What happens is that if you flick the front wheel slightly to the left, your mass is instantly to the right of the bike and the lean begins. From that moment, you're turning right even though the bike is going left. All that's left to do is then steer back to prevent the bike continuing left while you (the heavy bit) go right. So your turns are quicker and smoother - flicking the bike one way is a subtle and effortless operation compared to hefting your own bodyweight. It's a pretty fundamental technique when riding at speed, especially off-road.

Punk_shore wrote:So for one direction of lean there are right and left steering inputs. Conversely for a left steering input, there are right and left directions of initial lean depending on the cycle's speed.

Would it be simpler if a turn to the left always produced a lean to the left, and a turn to the right generated a rightward lean?

In short, No!
There are two different conditions involved:
When you are riding very slowly you turn the handlebars so as to steer the bike back underneath yourself! I at least, tend to move my body weight around as well in the attempt to avoid becoming completely unbalanced and having to put a foot down - or worse These are activities that one is usually consciously aware of, particularly when the speed is really low.
When you are bowling merrily along things work differently. A spinning bicycle wheel, even an expensive lightweight one has a significant angular momentum and all the other properties of a gyroscope. If you turn the bars slightly to the left while travelling in a straight line, yes, the front wheel will start to move out from underneath you, starting a topple to the right. But something else happens too - the gyroscope between your forks resists the attempt to displace its axis and the result is that it exerts a force on the bike that will also tend to make the bike topple to the right. The opposite happens when you deside its time to straighten up. This is what makes it such an effective way to steer.
You can see this sort of effect for yourself by holding a non Q/R wheel by the axle and spinning it up. See the wheel lean as you rotate on your heels!
Hope this helps

There was an article on counter steering in C+ yonks ago. Caused all sorts of arguments and strange explanations on the forums. Consider my chair drawn up for the entertainments