Cycling UK Forum

ianr1950 wrote:Depends on whether you work in the city doesn't it.

indeed. you may choose to work 30 miles from home, or choose a home 30 miles from work.
some say they have no choice when they choose to, too

The main roads have become ever more busy. I regularly have to cross the A46 when out riding and you can wait 3 or 4 minutes to get out of a side road. The traffic's just a solid stream of cars with 10 feet between each. Luckily for us, they are going to dual the A46 and make all the junctions over or underbridges, so we'll soon be able to cycle uninterrupted straight over the top of the madding crowd of cars.

The quiet country lanes are no busier than they ever were. I can still cycle on deserted roads in the Vale of Belvoir and perhaps see one car every 10 minutes - even less on some of the quieter lanes.

tali42 wrote:Yes.

It took me a while to get over the number of cars here, coming from Australia. I naively thought that with the higher population densities would come increased use of public transport and cycling. I now realise that it causes more traffic congestion than more positive behaviour.

I grew up in Birmingham where the public transport system was, although maligned, actually brilliant. Regular buses, services covering everywhere, and cheap. Same as in London.

However, now I live in York. Beautiful place to live, but can't help but get the feeling the local public transport is just badly managed and not very good value.

We had the classic situation a few weeks ago where my wife vowed never to use the local bus service again. (We'll just use park and ride).

I'm lucky enough to have moved to a village that has fairly good public transport connections - the Coastliner passes through the village so I can get to Leeds or Whitby easily enough. Plus a local bus that takes us into the centre of York. (Where I used to live before, between Malton and Filey, we didn't have a bus service, so it was car or bike and the nearest town was 15 miles away. Not great.)

We had decided to go into town - myself, my wife and my two children, and thought we'd catch the bus from the village. Normally I'd cycle in if I was on my own as it's only a 5 mile journey, but I don't want to ride on the road with my youngest daughter (4 year-old).

The first shock was the cost. £7.40 for a family return ticket into York. So that's two adults, an 8 year old and 4 year old. I think the driver diddled us, as I since found out my youngest rides free. But compare that to a similar distance journey in Birmingham or London and it's hugely more expensive - especially if you use something like an Oyster card.

But worse was to come. When we tried to get home, we stood at the bus stop for an hour and a half. It was meant to be one bus every 20 minutes or so, but the service was so bad and the buses were really sporadic.

So even in a small city I can see why people would be put off using the bus. Especially when, with resident's discount, I can get in using wifey's eco-Audi, park, leave when I please and carry all the shopping for less money.

Normally we try and meet half-way and use the park and ride, which is much more frequent and cheaper. And as I said, if I'm just going in on my own I'll use my bike.

meic wrote:Yes,

Who is going to give theirs up though?

I did. I sold my car and bought a nice camera with the money.

meic wrote:Yes,

Who is going to give theirs up though?

I did, and my motorbike too. I paid off all my debt (except for the mortgage), and bought a bus pass and a Brompton with the proceeds.

rbrian wrote:There are far too many cars in Britain. Surely that's so obvious it doesn't need stating? 32 million or so - that's 2 car seats for every person.

And most of the car journeys are less than 5 miles. There is no reason anyone living in a city would need to own a car.

There are more cars then there are people with valid licenses I think. Around 13Million can't qualify as they are less than 17 years of age, then there is a high % of the age groups that are no longer eligible to drive, plus a huge number that have a disibilty that means they could never have a license. That doesn't even account for the number of people who just dont have a license.

However there are lots of reasons why people who live in cities should have a car, how else can they get themselves and their families to visit friends outside the city or go on holiday or to do a weekly shop with the kids without having to rely on the very expensive & overworked 'public' transport network?

There are too many cars on the road. However, I often wonder what my commute would be like if all the folk driving solo into work decided to see sense and take to a bike. God, it would be slow. And the world would be full of Aluminum hybrids.

Anyhow, if the current predictions of Peak Oil are anything to go by, the costs of running cars will perhaps change people's habits, well, at least poorer people's habits. Something to look forward to in fifteen years time in Edinburgh: trams that only go to the airport and thousands of 'Revolution' hybrids.

Tonyf33 wrote:However there are lots of reasons why people who live in cities should have a car, how else can they get themselves and their families to visit friends outside the city or go on holiday or to do a weekly shop with the kids without having to rely on the very expensive & overworked 'public' transport network?

Tesco deliver, and for infrequent use, renting makes much more sense - no fixed costs, and you can have whatever kind of vehicle you need. I sold a tiny car, which cost £200 a year to tax and insure. Recently I spent £18.75 plus £8 fuel renting a tiny car loaded to the gunwales for a car boot (and back seat, and front passenger seat) sale. In a couple of weeks I will spend £55 plus about £20 fuel on a giant van for moving home.

hubgearfreak wrote:

ianr1950 wrote:Depends on whether you work in the city doesn't it.

indeed. you may choose to work 30 miles from home, or choose a home 30 miles from work.
some say they have no choice when they choose to, too

Freedom of choice is not always there for everyone.

ianr1950 wrote:Freedom of choice is not always there for everyone.

You're right, Palestinians, Chinese, and sadly many others don't get to choose where they live & work.
Western Europeans are thankfully not on that list

I suppose it depends on your defintion of "too many".

Several people on here have posted about remembering times when cars were less frequent and walking and cycling were more pleasant and safer. I can too. However, there is a generation now who have never lived in times when the roads were not full of cars - and they don't find there to be too many cars because they don't consider sitting bumper to bumper on a main road on a Bank Holiday as anything unusual, nor having to queue for an hour on a Saturday to get into a town centre car park. Most of these people have been brought up to consider a car as a necessity and wouldn't consider any other form of transport.

There are those who genuinely cannot do without their cars - we can all find examples of those. Many of us probably could, if we really wanted too.

I think there will need to be a sea-change in society's thinking, or a really steep rise in petrol prices before we see the number of cars on the road decrease.

Jan

Meanwhile, enjoy cycling through "rush" hour standing traffic.

Very heavy traffic isn't too bad for cycling, and very light traffic is obviously the ideal. I find there are certain traffic densities in between, that are none-too-comfortable, where density and speed are both high.

I think it's lamentable how it has become normal and acceptable to block pavements, drop-kerbs etc with cars, and that there is an expectation that a car can be used for a door-to-door journey, literally.

I can't see this changing any time soon. Children learn from their parents, and at school drop-off time, children are learning how to bounce cars up kerbs, block driveways, leave car doors open blocking the pavement, speed along narrow residential roads etc etc. My daughter will not be learning any of this behaviour from me.

I don't know what it is like for some of you, but round here the bus service is abysmal and I live 5 miles from a city centre. The buses are disgusting, full of rubbish, papers, food cartons and frequented by the dregs of society. The language and loud music from mobile phones is disgusting. There is always a threat of violence. My daughter was sexually assaulted on one at 2pm, and followed off the bus. Luckily I was at home that day and caught him [he won't be doing it again in a hurry]. Buses rarely run to time and often just do not bother turning up. Cycling in our unpredictable weather is not always the easiest thing to do if you have to be somewhere, dry, smartly dressed and not smelling of sweat.
I don't know what the answer is but asking people to leave a safe, dry,warm,clean environment is never going to be a winner.

hubgearfreak wrote:

ianr1950 wrote:Freedom of choice is not always there for everyone.

You're right, Palestinians, Chinese, and sadly many others don't get to choose where they live & work.
Western Europeans are thankfully not on that list

Is that really 100% true then.

I'm lucky in that where I live traffic is usually light to moderate so too many cars is not an issue.

Too many badly-driven cars on the other hand...