Luggage...other than ortlieb

[travelling]

I know orts are good and and they last longer than most goverments but I just can't seem to get on with them so I'm again looking for some big capacity hardwearing long trek luggage

for brits the obvious choice is carradice and I am seriuosly considering these so would be interested in any views on large rear panniers, large front panniers and a handle bar bag

But I am also in the states at the momment for a few weeks and saw these ..
http://www.arkel-od.com/panniers/gt54/o ... fl=1&site=

Arkel are considered in the states to be similar to carradice and given the pound to dollar rate they seem quite tempting, anyone used them,had them, have them?

I also saw a breel on pb base but cannot find a website or seller ?

Anyway anything you can offer is greatly recieved

[pq]

I've tried all sorts of panniers over the years, although not Arkel I'm afraid.

I'm in a small minority who think that Ortlieb are grossly over-rated - mine are the worst panniers I've ever had - it's not that they're garbage, but they have lots of niggly design faults which others don't have. I'm not alone though - there's an interesting write up on crazyguyonabike which describes many of the reasons I dislike my Ortliebs so much.

I've come to a number of conclusions about panniers in general which you might find useful:

1. The fixing system is important, and my favourite of the ones I've used and which are currently available are Rixen Kaul, which Carradice and Altura both use. The Ortlieb system is nowhere near as good.

2. Having waterproof panniers isn't a great idea for touring. That's because they don't stay waterproof for long (minor damage is inevitable) and then your stuff gets wet. The waterproofness then locks the water inside your panniers - in my experience it can get in, but not out again. Much better to use lightweight drybags inside your panniers to keep the stuff you need dry, dry. Because they're not exposed to damage, they're more likely to stay waterproof than panniers are, and if damaged, are cheap and easy to replace, unlike panniers. And of course you don't need all your luggage to stay bone dry anyway - tents, tools etc. For me, the water resistant breathability of Carradice works really well.

So what should you buy? Well on a budget I'd get Altura drylines, with more to spend, Carradice Super C. Yes, the Alturas are pretty much waterproof, but are much less prone to that waterproofness being destroyed than Ortliebs are. But maybe Arkels would be a good alternative - I simply don't know.

Oh and I should probably say that touring for me is rather more extreme than for most - I ride for extended periods on horrendous dirt roads, so my panniers take more of a battering than most. Many of my Ortlieb moans apply much less if all you'll be doing is trundling along on smooth tarmac - but mine, frankly, aren't even very brilliant for that.

[pq]

I've just had a look at the Arkel web site. I prefer simpler panniers than that, but but you might like lots of compartments.

It's difficult to see whether their fixing system reproduces the faults of Ortliebs or not. Ortliebs are compromised by their gimmicky super-quick release - the Arkels seems to share that, but it's difficult to see whether it's better executed. Ortlieb anti-sway catches are awful (I use 2 on each pannier, and they still jump off!) but it isn't at all clear on Arkel's web site how theirs work. The video of the pannier being attached tells you nothing.

I'd want to see a pair in the flesh before parting with my hard earned. All the hype around Ortlieb has made me very wary of just going with the crowd. My guess is that they're better than Ortliebs - but I wouldn't be that confident that they're better than Carradice.

[andrew_s]

Vaude is similar to Ortieb but different designs.
Rixen & Kaul fittings, similarly waterproof, similar quality, similar price.

[Edvardus]

I used Altura rear panniers on a seven-day trip and whilst they were roomy and the fabric strong enough, the zip tabs on the pockets were far too lightweight. After a couple of days one of the wee rubber tabs broke in half. I found that Oxford panniers were better in that respect. Both of them had a zippered pocket with nylon waterproof covers you could pull out and over the panniers.

[julk]

I find my Carradice super C panniers retrofitted with Arkel Cam-Lock hooks are perfect for me.
I also fitted double antisway hooks on the bottom rail.

Arkel are great if you want lots of compartments and zip access to almost anywhere in the pannier. The top hook system is the best I have seen/used, but the lower antisway system is shockcord and a stainless hook which I am not personally keen on.

[TheBrick]

I've read that Arkel are very heavy but bomb proof. No experience of them though.

I'm slowly building up my carradice setup and love it, I have saddlebag for road day rides and over nighters and front ones that I use on the back for longer trips. I'd like the rear as well for when the girlfriend comes along as I use a cheap argos pair I have sown up many a time for that but I'll have to wait until next year to beable to afford them.

[rapidfire72]

I'm in a small minority who think that Ortlieb are grossly over-rated - mine are the worst panniers I've ever had - it's not that they're garbage, but they have lots of niggly design faults which others don't have. I'm not alone though - there's an interesting write up on crazyguyonabike which describes many of the reasons I dislike my Ortliebs so much.


2. Having waterproof panniers isn't a great idea for touring. That's because they don't stay waterproof for long (minor damage is inevitable) and then your stuff gets wet. The waterproofness then locks the water inside your panniers - in my experience it can get in, but not out again. Much better to use lightweight drybags inside your panniers to keep the stuff you need dry, dry. Because they're not exposed to damage, they're more likely to stay waterproof than panniers are, and if damaged, are cheap and easy to replace, unlike panniers. And of course you don't need all your luggage to stay bone dry anyway - tents, tools etc. For me, the water resistant breathability of Carradice works really well.



Oh and I should probably say that touring for me is rather more extreme than for most - I ride for extended periods on horrendous dirt roads, so my panniers take more of a battering than most. Many of my Ortlieb moans apply much less if all you'll be doing is trundling along on smooth tarmac - but mine, frankly, aren't even very brilliant for that.

Oh come now, I swear by the Ortlieb. Prefect for touring,esp camping.

[simonhill]

Carradice Super C for me. Rear only.

My last set lasted for over 14 years with some pretty heavy touring - now used for shopping local stuff, etc.

New ones already done 4 months SE Asia, 3 months NZ, and still look new (well almost). I normally travel fairly light, but they have also been big enough for a couple of short camping trips in Europe and UK.

Each new version seems to get a bit bigger - good - but are not as basic so will have problems with plastic backplate and straps etc in 10 years or so!

I like being able to have them repaired by anyone with a needle and cotton.

Like the big back pocket.

Tough and robust (Ortliebs look like big plastic shopping bags to me - although they do get rave reiews, from many longhaul tourers).

[barn]

have done 2 tours using arkel panniers and love them no problems at all,the hook system is really great.

[cycle tramp]

Deleted

[glueman]

Between the family we have various cotton duck Carradice bags and they're virtually indestructable. If you do have to repair them they function as well as ever and are abrasion resistent to an incredible degree - useful for camping. On tour each of the four panniers and their pockets has a specific function and I'd be lost if anything changed so it has to be Super Cs for me.

The only one I've ever been disappointed in was a handlebar bag with a fitting from the 80s that never really functioned well but the previous and subsequent designs are fine.

[grw]

I've had Karrimor and Ortlieb panniers, and Carradice saddlebag.
I find the Ortlieb simple to use once I got used to the closing technique. The catch at the bottom occasionally comes away from the rear rack if I am travelling on very rough roads and going at any kind of speed. It's not a problem on most sealed roads though. I've had no problems with the durability of these so far, (but then I've only had them for a couple of months with a total of just under 4 weeks away with them). The material appears to be fairly hardwearing and if unless I am falling off the bike a lot, I can't see how they're going to get holes in them. I find the lack of external pockets a bit of a pain, but it's just forced me to be a bit more organised. I like that they're waterproof. I waded through streams with these on the bike. While the pannier wasn't submerged, it wasn't far off it, and everything stayed dry. I disagree with pq when he says that waterproof panniers aren't a good idea for touring, but then I'm not as experienced as pq so its just a personal preference.
The Karrimor panniers were good. They lasted me 12 years. (Although I still have them, they have a fairly decent sized hole in the rear pocket). The fixing system of hooks and a cord looked more 'fixable' if broken than the Ortlieb, and it was easy enough to improvise temporary repairs when it broke on one occasion. They weren't especially waterproof so I always kept gear in plastic bags inside the panniers.
The Carradice is great. Only thing I'd say about it is that the material seems very heavy. I know weight is a secondary consideration when touring, but if my saddlebag seems very heavy, I've wondered what the weight of an empty set of complete panniers would be like? Anyone got a comparison between the weight of panniers of different brands?
grw

[CREPELLO]

i have to say that i rate carradice cotton over ortlieb.... when i think about ortlieb i always have this image of the pilot of the tandem, i was ridin' with at the time, tryin' to repair his torn ortlieb with a inner tube patch... he had caught it on something when off loading, and put a small and annoying hole in the side. Don't think it was an effective repair. Anyone know how to fix an tore ortlieb pannier?

ShooGoohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoe_Goo is probably the most appropriate adhesive I'd imagine, although Evostik Imact adhesive would work equally well. If your stoker was using rubber cement for the repair then that's guaranteed not to work.

[syklist]

i have to say that i rate carradice cotton over ortlieb.... when i think about ortlieb i always have this image of the pilot of the tandem, i was ridin' with at the time, tryin' to repair his torn ortlieb with a inner tube patch... he had caught it on something when off loading, and put a small and annoying hole in the side. Don't think it was an effective repair. Anyone know how to fix an tore ortlieb pannier?

It depends on the size of the tear but a good starting point for damage up to an inch long is to buy the Ortlieb repair kit. This includes patches and glue that bond well to the plastic material that Ortliebs are made from. I fixed a 1 inch tear about two years ago, and the bag is still air/waterproof. I also repaired a pinhole on the bottom of my other rear bag in the same way. Definitely an easy DIY job and we now carry a patch kit with us on tour.
HTH
Stan