It turns me off.

[Tom Richardson]

I am not at all convinced that climate change is affected by motor cars or human behaviour

You're not alone there voujan. Why be swayed by the overwhelming body of evidence based science when unfounded opinion and wishful thinking give a good excuse to ignore the implications, especially when the implications will mostly affect other people.

I don't use a bicycle for environmental reasons - I can leave future generations and poor people in other countries to sort that one out - I use one because it gets me out of that unsustainable traffic jam/fuel price/nowhere to park/have to pay road tax/having to commute long distances/speeding fined/dangerous/weight problem/beleaguring car dependancy culture that most people are enthusiastically forced in to.

Cycling is riddled with environmental and sustainability benefits from a personal to a global level. It would be strange for CTC to stand back from them and just say 'cycle cos its nice'.

[glueman]

I do believe climate change is effected by human behaviour, however the activities of British cyclists are at best neutral to the argument. I grew up when every town and city literally poured with the smoke of heavy industry and domestic fires, steam trains and cigarettes. The immediate carbon environment is an Eden compared to 40 or 50 years ago. I'm not convinced global conditions are influenced by bike riders one way or the other, that's an issue for governments. Conscience measures may even be counter productive, giving the illusion western liberals are making a difference whereas their activity is a smokescreen for a deeper malaise.

Safety is a concern. You can encounter a domesday scenario through mass annihlation of the species or under the wheels of a badly driven hatchback, the results for the individual are the same. I'm an enthusiastic re-cycler and try not to use our small hatchback more than necessary and hope to return to growing my own food next spring. None of those are going to save the planet.

[johncharles]

So Daily Mail readers are poor cyclists then and are happier in their cars?

Very good generalisation here me-thinks.

Who knows - I'm just continuing a theme. However it's true to say there are some generalisations that DO work for Daily Mail readers...

(Wouldn't happen to be one would you?)

Is that based on fact or just assumptions.

The same generalisations can very well be said about a lot of those who post on here.

[kwackers]

I do believe climate change is effected by human behaviour, however the activities of British cyclists are at best neutral to the argument. I grew up when every town and city literally poured with the smoke of heavy industry and domestic fires, steam trains and cigarettes. The immediate carbon environment is an Eden compared to 40 or 50 years ago. I'm not convinced global conditions are influenced by bike riders one way or the other, that's an issue for governments. Conscience measures may even be counter productive, giving the illusion western liberals are making a difference whereas there activity is a smokescreen for a deeper malaise.

Safety is a concern. You can encounter a domesday scenario through mass annihlation of the species or under the wheels of a badly driven hatchback, the results for the individual are the same. I'm an enthusiastic re-cycler and try not to use our small hatchback more than necessary and hope to return to growing my own food next spring. None of those are going to save the planet.

Climate change or not, at some point in our existence, us humans are going to have to enter a full on, hard core, resource and energy saving life style.
Better to start with small things now (like cycling) so that when it finally happens we'll be in better shape to deal with it. What we do now may not save the planet, but it sets the groundwork for those that will.

[glueman]

What we do now may not save the planet, but it sets the groundwork for those that will.

It's my misfortune to disagree. If the figures emerging about environmental changes are fact, we need a massive and immediate transformation of lifestyles, not some people pedalling to their over-heated corporate offices to continue as before.

[kwackers]

Is that based on fact or just assumptions.

The same generalisations can very well be said about a lot of those who post on here.

That's a fact, people buy the Daily Mail (with the odd exception) because they generally agree with it's politics. If you don't it's a HARD read (take it from me).
You may find generalisations unpalatable but they work for pretty much everyone.

Mind you, you did open my eyes to something I hadn't considered.

Vegans often complain if their type of food is not available and are justified in doing so in the same way that I would feel justified in compaining that there wasn't any meat dishes for me to eat.

I hadn't realised that meat eaters had the same philosophical and moral issues with not eating meat as vegans do about eating it. No wonder you guys feel justified in complaining if your dietary requirements aren't met.
Next time I organise some veggie stuff (I'm veggie rather than vegan) I'll put some bacon 'sprinklies' to the side to help you guys out with the moral dilemma you must be facing.

[kwackers]

It's my misfortune to disagree. If the figures emerging about environmental changes are fact, we need a massive and immediate transformation of lifestyles, not some people pedalling to their over-heated corporate offices to continue as before.

I would agree with that. But it's not going to happen (yet). People won't start running until they see the flames. Perhaps there genuinely is nothing we can do - but personally I'd like to think I've at least made some attempt rather than just thought "what can I do?".
As a point of interest, I'm mainly a utility/commuter cyclist, I enjoy cycling - but not all the time. When the rain is horizontal and it's freezing I'd sooner not be doing it. I guess that makes me a green cyclist...

[johncharles]

Very Droll, Kwackers you should take up comedy, then again don't bother.

It's a fact based on what research then. It's the generalisations that some on here give who I disagree with.

So what politics do Daily Mail readers agree with then. So do you read it then and why do you find it so hard to read?

I am not bothered what moral attitudes vegans or veggies have to food but I see why my choice of my choice of food cannot be supplied as well.

If I went to a vegetarian conference I would not expect any non veggie food but unless it is categoracally stated then why should there not be a choice.

[johncharles]

The environment has no bearing whatsoever on my reasons for cycling.

We are all doomed as Fraser would say.

[Si]

Next time I organise some veggie stuff (I'm veggie rather than vegan) I'll put some bacon 'sprinklies' to the side to help you guys out with the moral dilemma you must be facing.

Well don't bother trying to fool them with Quorn bacon bits......gack, still trying to get rid of the taste

[bigphil]

I am not bothered what moral attitudes vegans or veggies have to food but I see why my choice of my choice of food cannot be supplied as well.

If you have any particular dietary requirements you should probably state them when making any food booking. I'm sure the volunteers at a not for profit cycling event will do all they can to help.

[kwackers]

It's a fact based on what research then. It's the generalisations that some on here give who I disagree with.

You don't don't believe in generalisations then? You think the police waste their time with psychological profiles? You think similarly of psychologists?
As I said earlier, you may not like it but we all fall into patterns and it's the little things we do everyday (like reading the Mail) that allow others to (correctly) pigeon hole us.

No need for me to dig out research, it's pretty much fact - however feel free to show the world why it is nonsense.

[kwackers]

Next time I organise some veggie stuff (I'm veggie rather than vegan) I'll put some bacon 'sprinklies' to the side to help you guys out with the moral dilemma you must be facing.

Well don't bother trying to fool them with Quorn bacon bits......gack, still trying to get rid of the taste

Bacon is pretty much just salt, does salt soaked Quorn really taste that different?
I've never understood the idea behind making veggie stuff look like meat - other than to fool meat eaters so they don't feel morally challenged. It doesn't work and you can make much nicer meals if you don't try.

[Si]

It's my misfortune to disagree. If the figures emerging about environmental changes are fact, we need a massive and immediate transformation of lifestyles, not some people pedalling to their over-heated corporate offices to continue as before.

I would agree with that. But it's not going to happen (yet). People won't start running until they see the flames. Perhaps there genuinely is nothing we can do - but personally I'd like to think I've at least made some attempt rather than just thought "what can I do?".

I'm afraid that I disagree with your disagreement
While I agree that me cycling rather than using my ex-car isn't going to be measurable on global (or even local) levels of pollution or wastage, I do believe that in social terms it can make a difference. Bikes are good to think. It's all about changing people's mindsets to a slower, less wasteful life style. The more people that are seen on bikes the more popular cycling will become - it's like the 'safety in numbers' campaign, but this could be called 'popularity in numbers'. There are lots of little things like cycling that people can start doing, that by themselves don't physically change things, but they alter perceptions about the right way to go-on in the world. Cycling, in short, can alter the way people think about a whole raft of other issues, and have knock on effects through out their lives.

The other aspect that could be considered is the influence that western lifestyles have on the east (where the bulk of future pollution and resource use is predicted to come from). People in ,say, China or India don't want cars/TVs/leaf blowers/etc because they need them - they've managed for millennia without. No, they want them because they're the new status symbols (just like people in Britain were influenced by the American lifestyle after WWII). They look west and see the rich, glamorous, sophisticated westerners in their BMWs and Mercs and they want some of that. If we, in one of the more vocal countries of the west, can change our ways such that economical resource usage comes to the fore rather than conspicuous consumption, are we not more likely to influence the aspirants of the east?

[Si]

Next time I organise some veggie stuff (I'm veggie rather than vegan) I'll put some bacon 'sprinklies' to the side to help you guys out with the moral dilemma you must be facing.

Well don't bother trying to fool them with Quorn bacon bits......gack, still trying to get rid of the taste

Bacon is pretty much just salt, does salt soaked Quorn really taste that different?
I've never understood the idea behind making veggie stuff look like meat - other than to fool meat eaters so they don't feel morally challenged. It doesn't work and you can make much nicer meals if you don't try.

dunno what they do to it but it don't taste like bacon!
i think that the reason that we have quorn products is that after a life time of eating traditional "square meals" - meat and two veg, having no main, meatly constituent on the plate makes it look like something is missing .

Although, I should point out that I'm not a veggie - I just don't eat meat.