Minicabs seek access to London Bus Lanes

[drsquirrel]

It's difficult though, because what's the difference between a motorbike and a car (apart from the size)?

Allowing motorbikes in is fine if we want to actively incentivise people to motorbike, but I'm not sure that's the case (although I have nothing at all against motorcyclists).

I don't think the lanes (I was referring to actual cycle lanes not shared bus lanes) are wide enough for cyclists, let alone motorcyclists.

I mainly said my comment in jest though

[millimole]

Methinks that the original reason private for 'letting' cyclists into bus lanes - long before sustainability was fashionable - was because it was bonkers to have us on the outside edge of a bus lane 'getting in the way' of cars.
Using the same logic that it would (puts on flac jacket) make sense to permit motorcycles *that are limited to 30mph* into bus lanes on roads *where the limit is greater than this*. I regularly see milk floats using the local bus lane (Hinckley Road, Leicester) completely unlawfully, but it makes perfect sense.

Where this thread seems to be heading, it seems to me, is to argue more in favour of bicycles and HOV (High Occupancy Vehicle) lanes - that's to say, lets allow anything, taxi, minicab, bus, and, eeek , even private cars into bus lanes when they are carrying more than just the driver. I don't see the logic of allowing taxis into bus lanes when they are 'running empty' (no, I don't beleive they are all going to the next job).
However for HOV lanes to work, they need to be properly designed, and driver behaviour needs vastly improve over the current parlous standard of most driving that one sees!

[Simon L6]

the simple answer is that bicycles are sustainable transport, and deserve all the encouragement that transport authorities can offer - and bus lanes have proved to be the best encouragement that there is. Motorcycles aren't sustainable transport, and scare the bejesus out of my wife when they zip past at 30mph, and are therefore on my list of things to ban from bus lanes.

So basically anything that can be shown sustainable should be allowed in a bus lane then?

So a home made steam car powered by local timber? Would that be ok?

no - because anything that causes congestion is not sustainable. And cars cause congestion

[drsquirrel]

Well noted, this is where people miss out on both meanings of the word.

sustainable
1, able to continue over a period of time
2, causing little or no damage to the environment and therefore able to continue for a long time

Most people assume #2 only when you quite rightly point out meaning #1

Thus you can argue that electric cars are not sustainable either.

[horizon]

Without wishing to be funny, I wouldn't allow cyclists in bus lanes or I wouldn't allow buses in bus lanes: they don't mix. In London recently I regularly rode in the middle lane to avoid the buses and preferred to mix it with the cars. Getting stuck behind a stopping bus was frightening, the bus getting stuck behind you even more so. On another occasion I remember riding aroung Reading town centre in the evening and watched how the buses held the town to ransom - far too big, far too fast, dominating one way streets. I have mentioned this before on a previous thread. Back to Greig's original post - yes to everything in the bus lane and leave the other lane free for cyclists. One last thing: I rely on hearing an approaching car - you can have 30' of bus past you before you hear the engine at the back - they need a hooter (not a horn).

One last, last thing: I appreciate that this isn't a particularly helpful post but the issue is still real for me at least.

[Simon L6]

Without wishing to be funny, I wouldn't allow cyclists in bus lanes or I wouldn't allow buses in bus lanes: they don't mix. In London recently I regularly rode in the middle lane to avoid the buses and preferred to mix it with the cars.

your choice of lane is your choice of lane - but the vast majority of cyclists choose the bus lane. So why would you not 'allow' them to do so?

[horizon]

Well, "wouldn't allow" is putting it a bit strongly it's true, but the idea of putting buses and cyclists together may not have been a good one. I can see the logic: both are environmentally friendly (let's say), both rightly share priviledges like exclusive access to certain roads or junctions, both are welcome in cities, an empty bus lane frees up cyclists from the ever present car. But there the friendly alliance stops: buses are very wide, often taking up the whole width of the lane, are fast compared to cyclists - until they stop, when they block the way, forcing the cyclist onto the very lane they are supposed to be protected from, and cyclists can hold up buses for the same reasons. So I would prefer to share a lane with minicabs. However I accept that this is a different argument from allowing minicabs in bus lanes - this affects buses and transport in general - my point (if you are still following) is that from a cyclist's point of view, it wouldn't be very much worse as buses are themselves bad enough. Cyclists have cycle lanes not so much because they need "space" as buses do (though it is useful enough), but because they need protection from vehicles - bus lanes don't really offer that - because of the buses...

I hope this makes sense.

(I once had a thought that bus lanes should have been, like tram lines, located in the middle of roads with waiting areas on the centre line.)

PPS In fact anything that slows down traffic, buses included, is probably a good thing for cyclists.

[kwackers]

Since bus lanes generally only make sense on the left side of the road and it makes no sense to have cyclists forced into having traffic passing on both sides of them, then you only have two options.
Allow bicycles in bus lanes or ban them from that section of road.

All the 'sharing of attributes' nonsense has nothing to do with it. It's entirely a practical and safety thing.