Cycling UK Forum

Mick F wrote:Could be right, but how much per hour do people charge?

work on my motor car is £55 ph +vat. he's got rent, rates, accountant, staff, machinery, loans, stock to hold, insurance, waste disposal, electricity, water, consumables and more to pay.
it doesn't seem too much to me

look on an invoice for a car service, that'll show you what the going rate is for engineers.

........ looks like I owe Paul a few more beers! ...........

(Don't let him see this thread!)

Mick F wrote:........ looks like I owe Paul a few more beers! ...........

get him some decent scotch for xmas, not just out of kindness - it's in your best interests

I did find a cotterless axle that (almost) fitted. It did work all last winter but it isn't quite right There is only room for a couple of threads of the lockring. I have decided to go for a Prestine threadless cartridge BB from SJS. I am told they work well.
Here's the link http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/product-Prestine-Prestine-Threadless-Sealed-Bearing-Bottom-Bracket-for-Frames-with-Damaged-Threads-16505.htm

That looks like an interesting solution. Shame it's sealed though (wish they didn't do that sort of thing). It would throw the chainline out somewhat, but I could probably get most of it back with spacers/dished cog on the SA hub.

Thanks for the link, think I may well get one

Mick F has got me thinking about things today, I think that sometimes it's worth having things made and customised to achieve a long-term goal. So I went to see the engineering firm today and they made me a brilliant little tool for removing the right hand bottom bracket cup from Raleigh frames. I've been struggling with mine for nearly two weeks and really needed to get it out as I could feel the worn groove with my finger. And if I go with Mike's idea of a threadless cartridge, this one definitely has to come out

So 30 quid for basically a 30mm square block of steel with a machined groove, a hole, and a nut an bolt. I got home and within two minutes the BB cup was out.

Sometimes we pay money for not very much at all, and yet it's the best value for money in the world

GrahamNR17 wrote:So 30 quid for basically a 30mm square block of steel with a machined groove, a hole, and a nut an bolt. I got home and within two minutes the BB cup was out.

one of these then?

i for one would happily pay a returnable deposit and a non returnable fee for the rent of that.
please PM me if you're happy with such an arrangement

Two things.

To go back to the original question, I think it's very unlikely that anyone made alu cottered cranks because the stress around the cotter pin would be too great for such soft metal.

Secondly, Mick's solution clearly works, but you're very unlikely to find someone who would do it for a price you'd be prepared to pay, and at the end of it you'll have a cheap and cheerful bottom bracket in a weird size. If you end up considering spending that amount of money, I'd just get a Phil Wood. You can get them in any length and any thread (including Raleigh), and while they're not cheap, the cost wouldn't pay for many hours of an engineer's time.

You could also try talking to Cliff at Royce. He might be willing to make custom cups with the thread you need. His axles are available in an astounding range of lengths.

hubgearfreak wrote:

GrahamNR17 wrote:So 30 quid for basically a 30mm square block of steel with a machined groove, a hole, and a nut an bolt. I got home and within two minutes the BB cup was out.

one of these then?

i for one would happily pay a returnable deposit and a non returnable fee for the rent of that.
please PM me if you're happy with such an arrangement

Yep, I saw that link previously which is where I got the idea from. Mine's not quite as refined as that in so far as mine doesn't have the circular parts machined to form a 'negative' of the bearing cup and has a slot on only one side (I had it made to fit the bearing cup I had, rather than one I might have in the future) but I guess it would be easy enough to have the other side done when the situation arises. Also worth bearing in mind that if your cup is slightly recessed, there's a good chance this tool will remove some paint on the BB housing. I'm about to have a re-paint, so wasn't worried about that.

But of course, I'd be happy to loan you the tool, more than happy. I won't hear of rental fees and deposits either, it's not like you're new here and nobody knows you! Besides, I'll have your address and you'd be amazed how far I'd travel to pop a brick through your front window

pq wrote:Two things.

To go back to the original question, I think it's very unlikely that anyone made alu cottered cranks because the stress around the cotter pin would be too great for such soft metal.

Secondly, Mick's solution clearly works, but you're very unlikely to find someone who would do it for a price you'd be prepared to pay, and at the end of it you'll have a cheap and cheerful bottom bracket in a weird size. If you end up considering spending that amount of money, I'd just get a Phil Wood. You can get them in any length and any thread (including Raleigh), and while they're not cheap, the cost wouldn't pay for many hours of an engineer's time.

You could also try talking to Cliff at Royce. He might be willing to make custom cups with the thread you need. His axles are available in an astounding range of lengths.

Hi pq,

All valid points and useful new information, I'll certainly be following up the Phil Wood and Royce information. I did turn up a few cottered ally cranks, but they seem really rare, quite possibly for the reasons you suggest.

This thread is definitely going in my bookmarks, these Raleigh BBs certainly aren't going to become easier to source and I just know I'm going to come up against the issue frequently (I can't resist an old bike in need, and I see plenty of Raleighs needing a home).

Graham

GrahamNR17 wrote:it's not like you're new here and nobody knows you!

blimey, i've just seen how many posts i've made. 3000 sentences or paragraphs of drivel

anyhow, please do PM me when you've finished with it, i've got an old BSA here whose rebirth has come to a halt.

hubgearfreak wrote:

GrahamNR17 wrote:it's not like you're new here and nobody knows you!

blimey, i've just seen how many posts i've made. 3000 sentences or paragraphs of drivel

anyhow, please do PM me when you've finished with it, i've got an old BSA here whose rebirth has come to a halt.

You have mail

You could also try talking to Cliff at Royce. He might be willing to make custom cups with the thread you need.

The cups are readily available for a few quid from cycles of yesteryear or Old Bike trader. It's the spindles that are hard to find. I had thought about refacing mine down to 68mm, but even standard spindles are limited in choice now (except at Mick F's LBS) as the world has gone cartridge. The threadless are available in a selection of lengths. My only problem is I don't know exactly what length I need. I have the old cottered spindle but I'm not sure that a cotterless of the same length would give the same chainline with a particular chainset. So I'll have to do some careful measurement and guesstimate

MikewsMITH2 wrote:

You could also try talking to Cliff at Royce. He might be willing to make custom cups with the thread you need.

The cups are readily available for a few quid from cycles of yesteryear or Old Bike trader. It's the spindles that are hard to find. I had thought about refacing mine down to 68mm, but even standard spindles are limited in choice now (except at Mick F's LBS) as the world has gone cartridge. The threadless are available in a selection of lengths. My only problem is I don't know exactly what length I need. I have the old cottered spindle but I'm not sure that a cotterless of the same length would give the same chainline with a particular chainset. So I'll have to do some careful measurement and guesstimate

That's the problem I have with cotterless, getting the measurement right. I have sourced previously a cotterless spindle that fits perfectly and has the 'lumps the correct distance apart. Trouble is the spindle is symmetrical, ie the same length sticking out from the BB at each end, whereas the original stuck out much further on the chainring side. So with a cotterless I'll end up with the chainline being much nearer the centre of the wheel than it's present position And that would be the same for the threadless sealed unit too Pic below illustrates what I'm trying to say.

I was very lucky last week though, I obtained the exact 16GC cottered spindle as a new/unused item on ebay so on this occasion I'm going to take the path of least resistance. However, I've another Raleigh frame lined up to do something with so I'll use that one as a test bed for all the options, and see which of all the possible options works the best.

Thanks for the Old Bike Trader hint, I'd completely forgotten about them

Left to right: Original 16GC, New 16GC, 125mm cotterless, 130mm cotterless

Alloy Cottered Cranks were indeed produced in the 1940s Under the ALLEZ name , I believe part of Holdsworths
They were a bit 'chunky' probably not as strong as todays materials. To deal with this extra long cotter pins were available. But as regards the 1930s I was then a passenger in a sidecar on my Parents tandem, But I doubt if alloy was used at that time