Scottish cycle road tax

[mercurykev]

I attended the consultation conference for this action plan about 18 months ago and was part of the group where this issue first surfaced. IIRC it was brought up by a police road safety officer who felt that the discussion was too pro cyclist and excluding other road users - he had a bit of a 'top gear' outlook. I have it on some authority that the question was included partly for balance and partly to put it to bed.

[irc]

IIRC it was brought up by a police road safety officer who felt that the discussion was too pro cyclist and excluding other road users

A Cycling Action Plan discussion being pro cyclist? Who''d have thought it!

[reohn2]

It was though an option put forward in a Scottish Govt paper not a story someone invented.

It was a question, not a proposal.
I quote from the document.
"Q10. Should all road users pay a road tax? If so, how much should it be for cyclists, and how could it be enforced?".

The very fact that such a question is even considered is ridiculous,as a) theres no such a thing as road tax,b) some cars/motorcycles don't pay Vehicle Exise Duty (VED) as the law stands (which is already a recent law change),c) the collection of VED from cyclists would need to be a ridiculous amount to even break even from an administration POV.

As I said the fact that such a question even enters the mind of any sane thinking individual/politrickal party is stupid in the extreme.

[hubgearfreak]

the collection of VED from cyclists would need to be a ridiculous amount to even break even from an administration POV.

it's worse than that even. VED on motors is only collected off adults that own motors. if it was introduced for cycles, then would it apply to 5 year olds? and what penalty could the government apply to a 5 year old who'd overlooked VEDing his cycle? what about 2 year olds with like-a-bikes, what about wheelchairs that are chain driven? it's clearly the amongst the stupidest ideas ever.

[niggle]

They should scrap VED anyway, its a nonsense, it would be more effective both in terms of reducing admin costs and reducing carbon emissions just to add extra tax to fuel instead.

[reohn2]

They should scrap VED anyway, its a nonsense, it would be more effective both in terms of reducing admin costs and reducing carbon emissions just to add extra tax to fuel instead.

I've often thought the same myself.

[hubgearfreak]

yep, i agree. also, those that currently drive around without VED, wouldn't drive round without fuel

[EdinburghFixed]

Increasing duty on fuel instead would win my vote. The tax disc could simply become free, but still required (to demonstrate your MOT etc).

Look on the bright side, we can now quote the "statistic" that just 2% of the population is in favour of a bike road tax, to all those angry drivers

[goatwarden]

Cycle road tax would be a bit like the dog license which was abandoned (in England, at least) around 1978 as it cost more to administer than it raised. I wonder, assuming for a moment that the VED funds are actually in some way used specifically for road maintenance, how much uwear and tear cycles are deemed to cause in relation to cars and commercial vehicles.

The abandonment of VED in favour of additional tax on fuel is so obviously fair as to be totally unappealing to any politician. I resent paying the same VED contribution for my 3000 miles per year as a 6 wheeled Transit wich does 80,000. If the system was fair then Eddie Stobart and his mates would simply hold the country to ransom until we were all made to subsidise them again.

[SilverBadge]

Cycle road tax would be a bit like the dog license which was abandoned (in England, at least) around 1978 as it cost more to administer than it raised. I wonder, assuming for a moment that the VED funds are actually in some way used specifically for road maintenance, how much uwear and tear cycles are deemed to cause in relation to cars and commercial vehicles.

The abandonment of VED in favour of additional tax on fuel is so obviously fair as to be totally unappealing to any politician. I resent paying the same VED contribution for my 3000 miles per year as a 6 wheeled Transit wich does 80,000. If the system was fair then Eddie Stobart and his mates would simply hold the country to ransom until we were all made to subsidise them again.

VED for a large HGV is several thousand pounds these days, primarily for carriageway wear. Using the widely accepted formulas, I once calculated less than £1 for a car in carriageway wear, though provision and maintenance of other infrastructure and support must also be factored in (more like a fixed amount per vehicle).

For my own motoring, below average mileage, small car, VED is approaching 2p per mile, equivalent to 16p per litre of fuel.

[Bill D]

Although the document isn't full of original thinking, it seems to me to be a useful exercise which I hope gets translated into some action to deliver a better cycling environment. The financial case for spending money on the pro cycling measures is contained within the document itself: up to £2 billion savings on healthcare etc if the target to increase cycling activity is achieved. As others have said, there isn't a case for imposing a 'road tax' on cycles, the costs of which would almost certainly outweigh any revenue gained.
Now then, how can we get England, Wales and N Ireland to get started on corresponding pro-cycling programmes? Wouldn't it be lovely if all the UK had similar cycling facilities to Denmark or the Netherlands, and if drivers here showed the same consideration to cyclists as the French, Dutch etc do?

[reohn2]

......... how can we get England, Wales and N Ireland to get started on corresponding pro-cycling programmes? Wouldn't it be lovely if all the UK had similar cycling facilities to Denmark or the Netherlands, and if drivers here showed the same consideration to cyclists as the French, Dutch etc do?

It would need politrickians to actually listen to and care about the people they represent to have any kind of meaningful cycling facilities,it would need the majority of the electorate to vote for those that have the strength to do what needs doing.
As for consideration,it starts with respect for others, something I find sadly lacking in British society,something that a lack of law and order and a free for all,grab what you can society has fostered.
Something that has been encouraged by successive governments and gleefully adopted by an ever increasing minority until its become the norm.
With yet another sickening torture of children by children in the news this week and an exposure of social services unwilling to take the required actions to stop their despotic parents from poisoning there own childrens minds.
IMHO I think the state of the UK is far,far worse than anyone realises,if we can't look after them that can't look after themselves then cycling is a very long way down a list of priorities by the mad men and women who are in charge of things in this place I call home.
The worst of it is that I feel totally and utterly impotent in the face of this sickness.

[Bill D]

IMHO I think the state of the UK is far,far worse than anyone realises,if we can't look after them that can't look after themselves then cycling is a very long way down a list of priorities by the mad men and women who are in charge of things in this place I call home.
The worst of it is that I feel totally and utterly impotent in the face of this sickness.

I agree with much of this, but it is possible to gain small victories and I find it helps to try to focus on these rather than the big picture, which seems completely intractable.
Shrewsbury, for example, has much better cycling facilities than many other towns (I think it's a cycling demonstration town or something like that). It would be a good start if we could encourage the roll-out of similar facilities in all our towns. This is something that individuals, supported by sustrans, the ctc etc, could probably achieve in time. Of course, that won't change the bad attitudes of so many car drivers but it would help to make our cycling safer and probably more enjoyable.
Another thing we could probably influence is capacity for more cycles on trains. And so on...
Realistically, as individuals we can only hope to get things changed a bit at a time. If you take on a campaign to get something changed locally and succeed, I'm sure the feeling of impotence will go away. What I don't understand is how to get the CTC Headquarters more involved in this: it seems to me they could do more.

[reohn2]

I agree with much of this, but it is possible to gain small victories and I find it helps to try to focus on these rather than the big picture, which seems completely intractable.
Shrewsbury, for example, has much better cycling facilities than many other towns (I think it's a cycling demonstration town or something like that). It would be a good start if we could encourage the roll-out of similar facilities in all our towns. This is something that individuals, supported by sustrans, the ctc etc, could probably achieve in time. Of course, that won't change the bad attitudes of so many car drivers but it would help to make our cycling safer and probably more enjoyable.
Another thing we could probably influence is capacity for more cycles on trains. And so on...
Realistically, as individuals we can only hope to get things changed a bit at a time. If you take on a campaign to get something changed locally and succeed, I'm sure the feeling of impotence will go away. What I don't understand is how to get the CTC Headquarters more involved in this: it seems to me they could do more.

You're probably right (I'm having a bad week headwise)more worthwhile cycle facilities is a step forward and after all we are a nation in a transition where cycling is concerned,as for the CTC headquarters geting their hands dirty,don't hold your breath.

[niggle]

some cars/motorcycles don't pay Vehicle Exise Duty (VED) as the law stands

Actually all petrol powered motorcycles and even mopeds, even the 150mpg Honda Innova 125, 'pay' VED, go figure....

http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/tax_vehic ... e_duty.htm

I imagine if the tax went on fuel then it would work out cheaper to run my 3000 miles per year 171cc scooter doing 75mpg than it does paying the current VED of £33, but I cannot be bothered to work it out right now