Now With The Benefit Of Hindsight....

[CREPELLO]

Why don't people read before they post? MikewsMITH2 has quoted me and said that he didn't endorse welding it as 531 isn't designed for those sorts of temperatures and it may make matters worse. If he had read my post, and I quote verbatim
"Strip the paint, "dress it up" (to quote Mick F) and repair the damaged metal, preferably with some sort of electric welding, so as not the weaken the metal with heat"

Yes I did read it properly. Electric welding will still heat the metal to its melting point. 531 is only designed to withstand brazing temperatures (<1200deg C) rather than welding temperatures (>3000 deg C). Once 531 is overheated it loses its flexibility and becomes weaker. Even too much heat with a brazing torch can cause premature failure. The advantage of MIG welding is that it will concentrate the heat in a relatively small area due to the cooling effect of the shielding gas. However welding it will still weaken the area rather than strengthen it and that's why I wouldn't advise it.

A skilled craftsman could braze it up.

I'd certainly go with the last line.

How much of the tube is left in? Have you tried knocking it "in" a little way this might just jar it free enough to start twisting it out? Good luck but don't dismiss the frame yet.

Malc

Yeah, the brazing option. I wonder whether it would be a highly skilled job? Rolling and hammering the steel back into shape would be fairly straightforward. The brass is just used as filler and to stabilise the area. If necessary, it might be useful to build up the filler a little to minimise stress risers. Oh, and it'll need a good clean up. So I'm thinking that a local workshop that can braze will be all that's necessary.

Malc, you'll see from my picture in the first post how much of the post is showing. Not enough, as I'd said, to really get the mole grips to grip. And in the course of the process I did give the post a fair whack, but it's beyond twisting out now. I'm gonna be trying the coke (caustic)/soda route for the remnants now.

[MikewsMITH2]

I'd be surprised if coke did it, but I'm prepared to be amazed. Don't they sell coke in aluminium cans? If caustic soda takes 7-10 days, how long will coke take? Try bit of aluminium foil and see how long that takes

[rgc_911]

I got an ali liner out of a steel tube once on a motorbike fork by freezing it in a chest freezer. The ali contracts more than the steel and it worked for me.

Obviously you'd have to have a freezer big enough and wear gloves when removing/handling it as they are generally around -22c and you will freeze yourself to the metal if you don't.

might be quicker than dissolving it?

cheers
Cookie

[531colin]

I think people talk about coke, ammonia and vinegar dissolving the oxide (or whatever the product of corrosion is). Coke certainly cleans the tarnish off pennies, doesn't it contain a smell of phosphoric acid, or is all this just fantasy? Seems on odd trio, an organic acid , a weakly ionised inorganic acid (?) and a strong base? And we have 2 people talking about sodium hydroxide and sodium chlorate dissolving aluminium metal. I think we need a chemist!!

EDIT also somebody talking about a freezing spray to get a bottom bracket out!

[hondated]

Creppelo I know it is of little comfort to you but you have probably saved me from having the same problem because I went straight out after reading your thread and although it was tight I managed to get my seat spindle out and I was able to copper grease it.So thanks

[Mick F]

Stating the obvious ............ you should have removed it years ago and greased it, and repeated that at six monthly intervals.
(Sorry, couldn't resist it! )

This is good information, even though I say it myself.

Seriously, though, all 'bits' should be removed and greased periodically - seat post, bottom bracket, 'bar stem, even the pedals.

[CREPELLO]

Stating the obvious ............ you should have removed it years ago and greased it, and repeated that at six monthly intervals.
(Sorry, couldn't resist it! )

This is good information, even though I say it myself.

Seriously, though, all 'bits' should be removed and greased periodically - seat post, bottom bracket, 'bar stem, even the pedals.

Of course this is good practise that we all aspire to observe, but it's what you do when confronted with somebody else's neglect. This is my problem.

I really shouldn't play the fleabay, I know. Especially when confronted with a picture of a bike missing it's wheels....and the seller said that he'd be auctioning them seperately!!! Why didn't I see that for what it was? The front one would've been a pringle.

[Mick F]

Yes, sorry. My sympathy, as I said before.
When we buy something secondhand, we know little or nothing of the item.

[Edwards]

You could try a 3 more hack saw cuts down the seat post about 5mm apart. Then knock the the cut parts toward the center. If the rest still does not want to move another hacksaw cut in the opposite side to the others, again taping inwards.
Then clean out the seat tube to remove any rust or alloy corrosion with wet and dry wrapped around a broom handle.
Probably the best way to get the steel back flat is to hold a piece of round steel bar in a vice. Then lift the frame on to the bar and tap the flap down.
If i was doing the job I would silver solder it, as this needs less heat and can be done with a small flame (damaging less paint). Thus avoiding the lug area getting hotter than needed.

[ferrit worrier]

Hi CREPELLO

If your still struggling to remove the seat post. you could try the following; Take a 10mm or 12mm coach bolt, under the head is a square, file off part of the head down to one flat of the square, then round off the corners. you will need to pass this down the seat post to the bottom. (B&Q do some nice long coach bolts) we now need a steel bar or old screw driver shaft less the handle. to keep the head under the tube. on the other end of the bolt run a normal nut down then a "stud" connector they are like two or three nuts in length. lock the stud connector onto the bolt with the nut. insert a length of screwed rod into the stud connector then pass a suitable weight over the stud, then two more nuts at the other end, and lock those up. what you now have is a impact puller! well sort of! the reason I said 10 or 12 is it'll depend on the internal dia of the post. with the bar try to find somthing that will slide in against the bolt without jamming it. the whole thing needs to slide. I'de also recomend putting the pinch bolt back in then you wont distort the top of the seat tube

I'tl take a bit of fettlin to get it down but it should hold once you get a bar in there to hold it against the tube. good luck, if you try it, I hope it works.

Malc

[531colin]

I get it youre making a slide hammer. Might work also with a long bit of screwed rod, if you can poke it all the way into the BB shell and then fit aheavy washer to contact the seatpost and then a nut.

[JohnW]

I have three comments :-
1). Never have anything to do with e-bay - lessons of history !!!
2). Tell us all who you bought it from - c'mon, we're your mates.
3). Tell the person you bought it from.

My sincere sympathies CREPELLO.

[ferrit worrier]

I get it youre making a slide hammer. Might work also with a long bit of screwed rod, if you can poke it all the way into the BB shell and then fit aheavy washer to contact the seatpost and then a nut.

Thats an even better idea

CREPELLO whats the internal dia of the tube?

I'll sent you pm

Malc

Just to edit the above. Has anyone ever done this? is there a danger of swaging the bottom of the seat post and really getting it stuck, or damaging the seat tube?

Malc

[kingfisher]

I seem to remember at the beginning that you may get the frame refinished??
If so then get the pin out by melting it, much lower melting point than steel so shouldn't hurt the metal too much.
That's how Chas Roberts got one out from my wife's frame many years ago.... and she's still using it ( his words were something like.. 'easy we'll just put the brazing torch on the pin ... you'll have to buy a new pin ' ( cheaper than a new frame!! )

I now regularly remove and grease pins and bars but why she cannot do it is beyond me.....

[CREPELLO]

I must say that I'm overwhelmed by your sympathy for my plight. It has been a frame of much grief as I'd alluded too previously. I wish the frame really was deserving of the concern you've shown, but it was supposed to be a straightforward (did I really think that?) commuter/winter bike project. I've now been told of the existence of a Dawes Audax (1999) which I might have to have for that bike.

I'm not going to bother to reveal the ID of the eBay seller as he no longer does bike business and told me he wouldn't be doing so at the time - the only honest thing I think he must have said.

I do hope to get the tube out somehow - the question is which method to deploy from all your suggestions? I think that FW's slide hammer thingy is a go-er in that it's mechanically sound as an idea. I fear that the post may be too jammed in. But I will give it a go.

Kingfisher, if I were to use a brazing torch, although the alu might melt, will the heat affect the existing brazing around the seatpost cluster? Well, if Chas Roberts does it it must be alright. If the frame was of real value, maybe I'd take the whole frame to a frame builder for the seatpost and a repaint, but it's difficult to know whether it's worth it, even if I do get a decent touring frame out of it (it's the wrong size for me in the head tube. It's fine with butterfly bars set up highish, but not good for the drop bars I prefer).

To cap it all, I think I've noticed a hairline crack in the seatpost cluster from the darn screw driver impact stressing it, so it's yet another concern - could be just in the paint, but I think not.

Excuse me while I just nip outside to flog the dead horse I've just bought....I may be sometime.