Upgrading Brakes - advice please

[Mick F]

PS
Mrs Mick F thinks that a disc brake would be best.
She does worry about me!

[Mick F]

Photos of a 36h hub in a 28h rim

Black felt pen to show where the empty holes are.

[531colin]

BRILLIANT!!!!!!!!
You have just achieved one of my ambitions!

[Mick F]

Glad you like it!
I wondered whether it would be possible to mount a 36h drum brake in my 28h rim. It could be a cheaper option than a disc brake.

I dug out my old 36h front hub - dunno why I kept it, it's a cheapo thing - and studied the 18 holes on each flange. I had this idea that I could omit/ignore four holes and I knew that it couldn't be regular as 4 into 18 doesn't go. So I marked off 12 o'clock and six o'clock, but 3 and 9 weren't there of course, so I offset them to the next hole clockwise. ie 3.30 and 9.30 if you see what I mean.

It meant that there would be a group of 4 spokes, a gap, a group of 3 spokes, a gap, a group of 4 spokes, a gap, then the final group of 3 spokes - making 14 in all.

I then laced one side up complete with the four holes empty.

I turned the wheel over and repeated the procedure.

When I'd finished, I tried truing up. No way! Some spokes could be tightened ok with threads showing, but some were right down the nipple threads and still very very loose. It was a good experiment, and if I had a variety of lengths of spokes, I could have trued it up perfectly.

That's the problem. By the time I'd played around with different spokes, I'd have been better buying a 36h rim!

The wheel is now back in one piece with the original hub.

[CREPELLO]

Could an Avid Arch rival cantilever brake do the job? You'd need to braze/weld canti studs on the fork, that's all. The Arch Rival has it's own integral brake booster that would make the braking much more effective than any other brake except the disc. But it may work out a lot easier to engineer.

[MikewsMITH2]

Mick there is no rush. They wheel will stay on my kayak trailer which we use a few times each summer to drag the kayak down to the beach. I just thought it would save you spending a load of money on the wheels. Look out on ebay for the hubs. You'll probably get the same price (or more!) when you come to sell them again.

[MikewsMITH2]

Hub brakes would be easier to engineer at home because all you need to fettle is a mount for the reaction arm. Disc brakes are quite critical as to the positioning of the mounts. However you could have got and "off the shelf" chopper for the job. The sprint with narrower "sports" saddle and drop handlebars! Sporty ay? I'm sure these were regularly seen in time trials and road races in the 70's...

BTW there should be a 3 speed hub with brake on your RSW 16 and you are way behind the times with your braking technology - The Special Edition Chopper of 1977 had cast alloy wheels and rear hub brake!

[MikewsMITH2]

The Special Edition Chopper of 1977 had cast alloy wheels and rear hub brake!

Found one just look at this beauty:



and the rear brake!

[Mick F]

I'm drooling!
Thanks Mike!

Yes, the mounting of the calliper for a disc brake would pose a problem. I need to have a good look at a bike with one to see how a clamp-on version could be constructed.

And yes, a drum brake would make an easier solution. I fitted roller brakes to Barbarella, and made a clamp for the reaction arm with no problem.

Talking of Barbarella, I wonder if I could rob the front hub for a few months ..........

[Mick F]

I think I've cracked it!

Barbarella to the rescue. I still have all the figures for the hubs as I built the wheels myself. Mrs Mick F won't miss Barbarella much, as she doesn't ride her very often.

I could rob the front hub, buy one of these http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/product-Alex ... e-4949.htm and six packs of these in the correct lengths http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/category-Spo ... hs-753.htm

All I would need is for SJS to give me the Effective Rim Diameter - possibly a little over 300mm or so - and I could order the 36 spokes at the same time.

Slight problems, but not insurmountable:
1. Bracket for the reaction arm to be manufactured.
2. OLN may not be reduce-able on the hub, so I may have to pull the forks out a bit. Std hubs 100mm, Chopper is 90mm.
3. Brake lever may have to be robbed as well, but I'd have to experiment, but I do have some MTB levers for V brakes.

I'll ask permission from Mrs Mick F this evening ..........

[resus1uk]

All three of my trikes have front bub brakes, the reaction arms are attached to the front fork by simple means.

The Pashley "gas-pipe" Picador just has a Jubilee clip plus a bit of rubber.

The Higgins has a new Sturmey Archer hub which came with a similar band to fasten the arm.

[CREPELLO]

Mick, I wouldn't want to put a dampener ( ) on your great braking ideas, but is the hub brake up to the job for the heavier load of a tour? I'm trying to follow your Chopper progress, but may have missed out how heavy your luggage is. And I don't have experience of hub brakes, but don't they fade quiet badly? Please ignore these comments if your experience tells you that it'll be alright.

[Mick F]

I haven't thought about what I'll be towing/carrying yet, but I want to keep it as low a weight as possible. Chopper is heavy and inefficient enough by itself.

The Rolls Royce brake idea would be a disc brake, and I may go down that road, and as you say a drum brake could fade but it would be easier to fit.

I've toured with very heavy loads on normal rim brakes on Mercian and providing I braked early and thought ahead, I had no problems, so any good braking should be ok with Chopper. In the dry, the braking is quite good - I mean it - quite good! It's in the wet when there's a problem - no brakes, whether I'm towing or not!

The roller brakes are quite effective on Barbarella, so I think it's worth a punt. In order to fit a disc brake, or even a drum brake, I need a 36 hole rim. I can fit the roller brake hub in a new rim for only the price of some spokes. If it's no use, all I've lost is a set of spokes, the hub and brake can go back on Barbarella and I'll buy a disc hub and brake and try that. I'll still have the new rim to use.

I'll email SJS for info about their rim's ERD so I can order spokes as well.

[CREPELLO]

and providing I braked early and thought ahead, I had no problems, so any good braking should be ok with Chopper. In the dry, the braking is quite good - I mean it - quite good! It's in the wet when there's a problem - no brakes, whether I'm towing or not!

As you've been a sea fairing sort in your past, have you considered carrying an anchor to chuck overboard when going down hill? I jest...forgive me.

I admire your vision and tenacity in getting this hulk of Great British engineering from end too end. I hope it stays in one piece for you, or at least less than three. You are going to organise sponsorship for the jaunt, aren't you? You should raise a fair bit I think.

[ferrit worrier]

Hi Mick

Just thinking about the reaction arm clamp, I think I've seen a strip of stainless with holes in, a bit like giant meccano these are attached to electrical earth bonding clamps. for fastening around pipes etc. might do the trick, fasten a length of inner tube around the fork leg as a buffer.
If you want anything knocking up send us a template / drawing,

you might be able to get a set of shorter cones for the axle? I don't think you'll loose 10mm, 5 or 6 may be?
Malc