Sat Navs and route planning

[Mick F]

...... I don't know how I would cope with garmin etc as I need glasses to read. I can't see my bike comp very well on the move.

Agree!
The Garmin Edge 705 is a big display and lights up quite well although to do any menu controlling, I have to put my glasses on. Saying that, you have to stop anyway to concentrate on the menu as to do this whilst riding is tantamount to foolhardy! Try seeing where you're going through traffic and at the same time, adjusting the display or settings!

The good thing about the 705 with the big display, is that you can customise it. If all you want is speed and distance, the display can cope and make them quite big so even a blind person like me can read it! The map can be quite big and bright too, and a course to follow is big and bright. With "Saved Rides" it will beep at you quite loudly and give directions in big bold letters.

Other than that, all the info is recorded, so you can review the ride at your leisure on a computer with your reading glasses on.

[philg]

It all looks very expensive to me. I mean you can get a new car satnav with bike mode for £35. Just a shame about the battery life being crap.

Indeed - but your car unit also won't be waterproof; allow you to plan your route on a PC and upload it; let you download your tracks for posterity; give you climbing data; replace your bike computer; use it for direct heading whilst walking...... etc. etc.

Trust me, compared to 5 years ago these units are a bargain

[alexhall0404]

Thanks for all the advice - just bought the Garmin etrex legend and citi navigator so will keep you posted with how it goes with super long routes etc!

[drossall]

Another vote for the Vista HCx.

does the e-trex actually know about the roads?

This is a bit of a two-edged sword. I've been playing with the Etrex's on-road routing recently, having previously just set up waypoints with straight lines between them.

You can't always guarantee that the Etrex will route the same way as your computer mapping software did. If the whole point is to plan a route, this is annoying at least - the GPS sends you the wrong way occasionally, which defeats the object.

There's another issue if you nip through a bridleway, or a gap where the road is closed or something. The on-road routing will turn you round, and send you back to the way a car could go to get round the "obstruction"

However, it doesn't matter much. If you just set up waypoints, your route never does much worse than run alongside the road, cutting off some corners. That's plenty good enough, and sometimes makes it easier to see the road on the map.

A GPS is a great way of planning a route, and not having to stop often to check the route during the ride. Sometimes, of course, doing that is part of the pleasure, but sometimes you want to concentrate on the ride.

[alexhall0404]

I have a Garmin Nuvi 265 Sat Nav for my car and an Etrex legend for cycling/walking. I bought City Navigator Europe NT so I could plan routes and tracks on my PC and laptop and upload them to either device - I seem to be in a muddle getting it all to work.

I loaded City Navigator on my Laptop initially unlocking the map linked to my Nuvi device and tried to upload the map to update the Nuvi.

I then loaded City Navigator onto my PC, unlocked the map with the Nuvi linked in and have uploaded routes onto the etrex legend. But I have not found a way of uploading the City Navigator map to the etrex and the map already on the etrex does not seem to be compatible - it seems the routes uploaded come through as straight tracks between waypoints and waypoints don't always transfer correctly...

Neither can I get the Nuvi to show uploaded routes.

Maybe I have blown the license in some way by having 2 devices and or 2 computers?

Does anyone have any advice please?

[patricktaylor]

... Maybe I have blown the license in some way by having 2 devices and or 2 computers?

Does anyone have any advice please?

That is likely, I'm afraid. I'm not familiar with the Nuvi but I have an eTrex Legend HCx. I recently purchased City Navigator Europe on disk and was told I can install the maps on as many computers as I like, but to one registered GPS unit only. This seems a bit restrictive if I need to replace the GPS, but I think that's how it is.

[Robert]

... Maybe I have blown the license in some way by having 2 devices and or 2 computers?

Does anyone have any advice please?

That is likely, I'm afraid. I'm not familiar with the Nuvi but I have an eTrex Legend HCx. I recently purchased City Navigator Europe on disk and was told I can install the maps on as many computers as I like, but to one registered GPS unit only. This seems a bit restrictive if I need to replace the GPS, but I think that's how it is.

I came across this problem when I bought my partner an Etrex. The one device limitation seems unduly restrictive, but there's always Open Street Map. I found this a bit confusing, but managed to download maps of the UK - hopefully someone who knows more about it will be along in a minute.

I don't bother with Garmin's automatic routing capabilities - I use the device as an electronic route sheet, that happens to have the advantage of telling you where you are on the plan with all the usual cycle computer functions and more. There are two schools of thought on tour planning, and I'm in the one that regards planning the tour as part of the fun of it. So as far as the GPS is concerned I put a waypoint in at every turn and number them in sequence (eg 123-L, would be the 23rd waypoint on day 1 of the tour and it's a left turn), and then navigate using off road (straight lines) from point to point. Distance to next is a very useful field on the trip computer view.

My eyesight must be at the same stage as Mick F's, I can't read without specs, but for navigation the Etrex is fine. I do find the menus impossible and also the turn by turn popups on automatic routing are challenging.

Where automatic routing comes into its own is in navigating out of big cities. It's better suited to more dense road networks for cycling, because, if you don't fancy the road it would like to send you down, you can ignore it and be reasonably confident that you're not going to suffer a distance penalty, which can often happen in the countryside.

[matt_twam_asi]

... Maybe I have blown the license in some way by having 2 devices and or 2 computers?

Does anyone have any advice please?

That is likely, I'm afraid. I'm not familiar with the Nuvi but I have an eTrex Legend HCx. I recently purchased City Navigator Europe on disk and was told I can install the maps on as many computers as I like, but to one registered GPS unit only. This seems a bit restrictive if I need to replace the GPS, but I think that's how it is.

I came across this problem when I bought my partner an Etrex. The one device limitation seems unduly restrictive, but there's always Open Street Map. I found this a bit confusing, but managed to download maps of the UK - hopefully someone who knows more about it will be along in a minute.

You rang?

This page lists all the people who are creating Garmin compatible maps from OSM data. IMO this one is the best - just choose the areas you want from the map or dropdown boxes, enter your email address on the left of the page and click 'Build my map'.

If you use Linux and are feeling more adventurous, this page provides pretty decent instructions on how to roll your own bike specific maps from the OSM data (not unlike Open Cycle Map). This is what I use on my eTrex now, and it looks good - the addition of the NCN routes is a very nice feature. I'm not sure if any of the pre-made maps offer this.

Whatever route you choose, you will end up with a gmapsupp.img file. Transfer this to the unit by connecting it to the computer and choosing Setup -> Interface -> USB Mass Storage. Then copy the .img file into the 'Garmin' folder.

[Mick F]

...... Whatever route you choose, you will end up with a gmapsupp.img file. Transfer this to the unit by connecting it to the computer and choosing Setup -> Interface -> USB Mass Storage. Then copy the .img file into the 'Garmin' folder.

That's all very well if you don't already have a file called gmapsupp.img in there as well.

I wanted a choice of maps of the same area, and found that I couldn't unless I renamed one. When I did that, the Garmin didn't recognise it.

Any ideas of a workaround?

[sbseven]

That's all very well if you don't already have a file called gmapsupp.img in there as well.

I wanted a choice of maps of the same area, and found that I couldn't unless I renamed one. When I did that, the Garmin didn't recognise it.

Any ideas of a workaround?

It can be done using a number of methods, depending on your technical prowess and willlingness to experiment...

1. Easy way is just get another microSD, put the alternate GMAPSUPP.IMG into a \GARMIN folder on it and physically swap the cards over as needed.

2. You can put another GMAPSUPP.IMG into the internal memory of the Garmin 705 (into the \GARMIN folder). You can then switch between the map(s) in the memory and on the datacard via the settings/map menu option. An OSM Garmin map of the UK will be about 200-250MB. That will just fit onto the older 500MB internal memory models. If you've got a newer 705, it's probably got 1GB of internal storage, so there's a little more room. Note: There's a theoretical risk associated with installing "unsupported maps" (such as OSM) into the internal memory and then locking up the device. It's preferable to install an OSM map onto a datacard so that if something goes wrong, you can remove the card and restart the device as normal.

This OSM Garmin map of the whole of the UK is good: http://www.ravenfamily.org/andyg/maps. Download the file OSM-Garmin-Munky-UKIE.zip. This contains a GMAPSUPP.IMG file to drop onto the 705 or a datacard. There's a (very) long thread on YACF about this map and OSM related stuff: Free Maps for Garmin.

3. You can also use Garmin MapSource to easily combine different maps into a single GMAPSUPP.IMG, but you have to have all of the maps installed into MapSource in the first place (...and that's not always straighforward).

4. Finally, you can use something like GMapTool to achieve the same thing, but now it starting to get technical. Start here if you want to investigate further: Using GMapTool to combine multiple mapsets into one mapset file for Garmin GPS.

Shaun

[sbseven]

If you use Linux and are feeling more adventurous, this page provides pretty decent instructions on how to roll your own bike specific maps from the OSM data (not unlike Open Cycle Map).

Uses Java based programs, so works on Windows too...and probably Macs

[Mick F]

1. Easy way is just get another microSD, put the alternate GMAPSUPP.IMG into a \GARMIN folder on it and physically swap the cards over as needed.

That sounds the best way!
Obvious too, when you think about it.

Now, why didn't I think about that in the first place?

[sbseven]

Method 2 should work fine. I was just covering myself...
It's a lot more convenient too. Those microSD cards are very small and fiddly and you'd have to turn the device off to exchange...

[matt_twam_asi]

If you use Linux and are feeling more adventurous, this page provides pretty decent instructions on how to roll your own bike specific maps from the OSM data (not unlike Open Cycle Map).

Uses Java based programs, so works on Windows too...and probably Macs

It should, yes. I mentioned Linux because the instructions detail a lot of command line bashing, which may put off Windows and Mac users. Plus personally I can only vouch for the instructions working in Linux, specifically Ubuntu 9.10 and 10.04.

[sbseven]

I use those OSM map programs (mkgmap/splitter) in Windows Vista / XP.