Wheel trueing advice needed.

[Justin]

I've just had my first attempt at trueing a rear wheel and so far so good but I've got a few questions that I'd appreciate some help with.

1) Am I right to believe that the drive side spokes should be a little tighter than those on the non-drive side?

2) Despite the wheel now being true to perhaps a milimeter or less, I've noticed that not all of the spokes on the non-drive side are of equal tension. I don't have a tensionometer, but noticed this through squeezing various spokes together.
They're certainly not extremely loose, but there is a bit of a difference. Should I ignore the trueing for a moment and try and get the spokes all roughly the same tension and then start the trueing process from scratch? Or should I just leave things alone now the wheel is true, bearing in mind that without a tensionometer I would only be able to get a rough idea of compareable tension anyway?

3) I've taken the rim tape off and have noticed that on quite a few spokes the threaded end is sticking out above the end of the nipple by between 1mm-2mm. It may have always been like this ,I don't know. Should I try and grind off the spoke ends which are proud of the nipple, or is 1 or 2mm nothing to be concerned about and the rim tape will fully protect the tube. It's a 26" MTB wheel with slick tyres and I usually keep it inflated to the maximum recommendation of 70 psi.


Any advice on the above would be appreciated, thanks.

[CJ]

1) The drive side spokes in most back wheels need to be not just a bit, but rather a lot tighter than the left side. In some road wheels they are neccessarily as much as twice as tight!

2) If you've had to adjust some spokes in order to true the wheel it's likely that the rim has had a knock that's permanently, slightly distorted it. In that case you never can make all the spokes a uniform tension, but should strive for the best compromise between lack of truth and varying tension. The best way to assess spoke tensions, without a tensiometer, is to pluck the spokes and compare the sounds they make. A higher note is obviously tighter.

3) If the rim tape is easily removable and actually touches the nipple heads you must have a simple open section rim. In that case you can and certainly should grind down (or file) those projecting spoke ends until they're flush with the nipple heads - or at least don't project any more than the thickness of the rim tape.

[Justin]

Thanks CJ.

The rim is an old one and has certainly had it's fair share of knocks so I'll follow your advice on that one and get it as good as I can.

I shall get the file out then for the spoke heads.

[Mick F]

I'm sure you don't want to go to the trouble, Justin, but I had a similar problem on a friends bike.
I was troubled by the differences in spoke tension when I trued up his wheel, so I took out all the spokes and lay the rim down on a flat surface - lo and behold, the rim wasn't flat!

With a bit of brute force, I was able to get the rim quite flattish. Then, after re-building, the spokes ended up far more even than before. I was happy, and my mate was too.

[Justin]

Hi Mick,

That makes a lot of sense. Perhaps that could be where my problem lies. It is a very old rim, I''ve had it for over ten years at least and it's certainly had a knock or two in it's time, although credit where credits due, it's always served me well, even on a recent tour when carrying lots of weight.
I'm not sure I've got the skill to rebuild from scratch, so I think I'll quit while I'm ahead Although saying that, I've very much enjoyed my first wheel tinkering experience and am definately keen to learn more and further my skills so I may just give the rebuilding a try in the not too distant future. I have an old wheel that I can practise on, so at least I won't be off the road if I do mess up.

[Mick F]

That's what I did, practised on an old pair of wheels a few times until I'd got it sussed. I'm no expert at all, but it's good fun and rewarding. You don't need much in the way of facilities, just an upturned frame and a good quality spoke key.

Oh, and a good eye too.

Good luck!

[531colin]

Its impossible to describe the feel of a properly tensioned wheel, you just have to go out and feel some wheels.(They can't arrest you for it.)
I expect your old wheel will be slack if it has had little attention over the years.
If you have tight spokes and loose spokes next to each other, you can "share out" the tension between them without the wheel going far out of true.
If the wheel is very slack, after its true and the tensions are as balanced as you can easily get them, you can retension it. To maintain the difference in tension between the 2 sides, you need to tighten the driveside spokes half a turn and the other side a quarter turn.
Check that the rim is centered between the hub locknuts by putting it in the frame the wrong way round ; the difference in the position of the rim is twice the error in centering, so dont be too fussy. A slightly bent axle makes this test useless!
If its out of round, tension "high" spots and slacken "low" spots. In a rear, I look to tighten (or loosen) 2 driveside spokes to 1 of the others to maintain tension difference.
HAVE FUN!!

[Richard]

I would thoroughly recommend Roger Musson's wheel building book which is an excellent guide to the art of wheelbuilding.

[Justin]

Thanks 531colin, there's some good advice there.


Thanks Richard for the book recommendation. It looks like a very comprehensive guide. Shame it's not available in the written form though.

[Gearoidmuar]

I've mostly built my own wheels for about 23 years. There are things to know that are important and make life easy.
To assess tension I hit spoke with a long narrow bladed screwdriver. I try to get all the spokes within half a tone of one another, on the same side, and pretty tight, but short of distorting the rim.

It is easy to fix lateral errors but the only way to deal with radial errors is to not produce them. Initially used matched spokes and nipples and screw them all down exactly the same amount. You can judge this on the threads and then.. WHEN YOU ARE ADJUSTING THE TENSIONS AND THE RIM ALIGNMENT DO NOT MAKE ANY BIG ADJUSTMENT OF ANY ONE SPOKE AT A TIME. That is not stressed enough in books about it.
e.g. for a minor adjustment tiny tweaks of several spokes are better than a big ignorant three full turns of one. The latter causes the radial problem.

Final tip. When done, stress relieve the spokes by putting wheel down and putting a good deal of your weight via your heel on each spoke in turn. Then finally adjust. This is very important. It prevents metal fatigue. I don't understand the science of it but it does work.

[ferrit worrier]

Thanks 531colin, there's some good advice there.


Thanks Richard for the book recommendation. It looks like a very comprehensive guide. Shame it's not available in the written form though.

Hi Justin

The book is well worth a read. I think I paid about £9.00 on line for mine, you need adobe acrobat to read it but then just print off the pages you want. Better than getting a nice book dirty with mucky thumb prints

Malc

[531colin]

Justin
If you want to get into wheelbuilding, theres loads of advice on these forums. You could probably advise me on how to find it, I'm pants at the computer lark. I have to search under my name to find my old posts! There's an excallent book by Jobst Brandt, too, very factual and logical.

[Justin]

Thanks Guys,

Some more good advice there. I thought I might find the process frustrating but the good thing is, I was in no rush to get the wheel done and had ample spare time to do it (for a change), so I actually found the process very relaxing and rewarding.
My new three-sided Park spoke key arrived through the post this morning and that was a pleasure to use. I picked up part of an old Tacx tubo trainer recently for the grand sum of £3. I attached a steel ruler below the wheel and one to either side of the rim and put the whole thing on my kitchen worktop. Working at eye level and in a very well, and evenly, lit room, made the job a pleasure to do. A black t-shirt laid down below the wheel made sighting the gap between rim and gauge even easier. I approached the whole thing by doing very small adjustments and just moved the gauges in closer and closer untill I was happy with trueing job.
I guess the real test of time will be to see if the rim remains true after a few loaded outings, my fingers are crossed.


I actually did a forum search earlier on wheelbuilding and indeed there is loads of excellent advice. There was one thread that was particularly interesting where the chap documented the wheel building process from the start.

I found another good series of video's on the subject HERE


I'm sure I'll end up investing £9 in the PDF book. I'll check out the Jobst Brandt one too, thanks for the info.

[js]

Where some spokes have ended up noticeably looser on the sproket side I would loosen the tighter spokes by say half a turn then true the wheel again by loosening the offside spokes. You can then continue truing by tightening the spocket side spokes to the required tension. The tighter the spokes the harder and more responsive the ride. To help you assess what tension you need try feeling spokes on other bikes similar to yours.
js
Ps You have not mentioned "dishing" the wheel. In the absence of a dishing tool I achieve this by reversing the wheel in the jig to see what dishing is required.
If the rim is a steel one it will be much more difficult to true properly.
If the rim is an old alloy rim you might like to try squeezing it between your thumb and finger to see if there is any give. If there is it might be sign that the rim is about to fail. You will then need to replace the rim.

[Gearoidmuar]

"The tighter the spokes, the harder and more responsive the ride"

HOCUS POCUS. This kind of thing is widely believed and is similar to "responsive ride", shock-absorbence of titanium, frames going soft etc. etc.

Just not true.

The fact that many people believe these myths does not in the least support them. I'm sure that I believe stuff that's nonsense as well, but when I find out it is, I discard it!