Help needed for child's bike seat please

[eileithyia]

Like Meic's offspring, my son was an experienced cyclist before he was a year old.
From 2 weeks - 7 months in a trailer, this was slightly variable due to timing of his birth, ie he first went into bike seat at Easter hols but due to inclement weather was swapped between trailer and bike seat on differing days of the week.
He celebrated his first birthday on the plane home from an Icelandic cycling trip, there was only part of one day when he ended up in the support vehicle due to inclement weather.
There were some longish days in the seat on that trip, and he soon made it clear when he was fed up. Difficult on a couple of days as we were looking for a suitable place to camp. It soon became obvious that he was fed up with the seat on these occasions, as he was quite content to sit perched somewhere once we stopped and it was obvious we were setting up camp, and he would watch us.

He stayed in the seat until the spring when he was approaching 4 years (not all the time, we did take him out of it for good behaviour lol). he did go back in the trailer a couple of times in the intervening winters when it was particularly cold.

From 33/4 he was onto kiddie cranks on the tandem. Though even then one of us would pilot the tandem and one would have bike seat on bike so he could have a break as required, that summer he cycled in the Dolomites, well mum did a lot of work pedalling!

So it can be fairly extensive if you wish, it just depends on what they get used and are built up to. Always ensure there is something to catch their attention, point out flowers/animals/ tractors etc., talk to them and build stops at places that will interest them; parks, duck pond, etc. Though I got quite used to the reassuring feeling of his head resting on my lower back as he slept.

[markmax]

Thank you all so much for your encouragement and advice.

We are looking to do 20 to 30 miles a day, something like that, with plenty of stops - if we see duck ponds, parks, etc. We anticipate a long stop for lunch with time for kicking around a ball while we have a picnic, go for a little walk to stretch their legs - although the youngest has only just started to learn to walk.

It seems people go from childseats to trailers to tag-alongs whereas some go straight from childseats to tag-alongs; some miss out childseats and do trailers from the off (especially if their children are very young) and some even have tandems!

We still like the idea of front mounted seats and have started looking at trailers too. I don't even know whether my children are average height, weight etc, so I could find that out which would give me an idea of how long they could be in a front seat for.

But I don't see the problem in doing 20 to 30 miles a day with plenty of stops. I'm not put off after getting your replies so thanks for that. Some of the websites were American. One had posted about a specifc front mounted seat and whether anyone had used it and what they thought of it; one response was from someone accusing the parent of having no regard for safety of their precious little one if they intended to put him in a front mounted seat! The original poster's response was for people to stick to answering the question please or post elsewhere as this was not a thread for which type of bike seat or trailer thank you very much!

I think I'll buy the Carlton Reid book too, for information on touring with families. I looked at the free podcasts on itunes but whilst there is a lot I could learn from it (being recently new to cycling), I couldn't find the one on families.

[eileithyia]

As you have learnt, do not bother with American websites. Our trailer carried the warning; not to be used for children under 18 months! That was exactly the intention, by the time they reach 6-7 months they should be able to sit up and support their head thus using a child seat. As I said after this stage the trailer was only used for particularly cold and inclement weather, it was too much of a nuisance otherwise esp on tracks with complicated gates.

I was unable to use a route into Manchester with the trailer until Andrew was able to sit in a bike seat as i could not manage the trailer and gates by myself (and I am no weakling).

At 18 (when I started cycling) I went to York Rally for the first time, whilst not contemplating a family at that stage I was amazed to see the various means by which offspring were integrated into cycling, it was a real eye-opener and wonderful to see that a family was no barrier tocontinuing cycling even if it had to be modified, so just ignore the yanks and the Health and Safety cranks, they do not have the cycle touring history that we have with families IMHO.

[eileithyia]

Quite honestly we had no problem with our rear mounted bike seat. It was comfortable, offspring was protected from the elements by the shelter from your own body. He could sleep by resting his head on our back and it was no problem to hold a conversation and talk about items seen along the way; sheep, cows, birds, trees, flowers, farms etc. No worse than them being cooped up in the back seats of cars where such discussion is difficult due to the use of stereos etc., in fact probably far better.

[meic]

The best thing is a bike trailer.

Put both girls in the same trailer and they can fight each other for entertainment all the way.

[meic]

The problem of frequent stops is that the child then has to be coaxed back into the trailer from the playground which they DONT want to leave!
So often I have had a wailing child being put into the trailer and I imagine what the onlookers are thinking.
That is on the rare occasions that I have run out of time (or patience, it can be SOOO boring) and we do have to leave the park before she is ready.
Normally my daughter wants to get in the trailer because she knows it is taking her to something she wants but not when it is taking her away from something she wants.

[markmax]

As you have learnt, do not bother with American websites. Our trailer carried the warning; not to be used for children under 18 months! That was exactly the intention, by the time they reach 6-7 months they should be able to sit up and support their head thus using a child seat. As I said after this stage the trailer was only used for particularly cold and inclement weather, it was too much of a nuisance otherwise esp on tracks with complicated gates.

I was unable to use a route into Manchester with the trailer until Andrew was able to sit in a bike seat as i could not manage the trailer and gates by myself (and I am no weakling).

At 18 (when I started cycling) I went to York Rally for the first time, whilst not contemplating a family at that stage I was amazed to see the various means by which offspring were integrated into cycling, it was a real eye-opener and wonderful to see that a family was no barrier tocontinuing cycling even if it had to be modified, so just ignore the yanks and the Health and Safety cranks, they do not have the cycle touring history that we have with families IMHO.

This is so true about the gates - I forgot to say that this was talked about last night between us - that a lot of the cycle paths we use have these awkward gates - a set of bars to the left followed quickly by a set of bars to the right - I even find these difficult to cycle through on my own let alone with a trailer which we would have to unhitch. I presume they put these things in to stop motorcyclists or cars or from cyclists even going too fast when approaching a road which the track has to cross.
TRAILERS - pros, we thought good for sleeping, keeping each other company (I am sure that can be a con too), away from the elements of weather (although we would only take them out in fair weather but you can still get caught in a shower as I am sure a lot of you will have had experience of), converts into stroller - a real bonus for us but for how long with the youngest one getting ready to walk? Cons - expensive; we don't consider them as safe being on the ground and we would rather take them on bike paths than the road for safety reasons - perhaps we can be persuaded otherwise awkward with some gates/styles etc and expensive for decent ones
BIKE SEATS - front mounted - pros, more interaction, less boredom, keep an eye on them, less expensive, safer but cons, grow out of them quickly, not suitable for longer rides can't bring a pushchair (or can we???? Anyone taken a lightweight folding stroller on the back of their bike? We haven't got one but maybe it's an .)

The problem of frequent stops is that the child then has to be coaxed back into the trailer from the playground which they DONT want to leave!
So often I have had a wailing child being put into the trailer and I imagine what the onlookers are thinking.
That is on the rare occasions that I have run out of time (or patience, it can be SOOO boring) and we do have to leave the park before she is ready.
Normally my daughter wants to get in the trailer because she knows it is taking her to something she wants but not when it is taking her away from something she wants.

This is true - we don't want any unwarranted attention! This is new territory for us. We want it to be an enjoyable experience and will be worried if the children don't enjoy it without people thinking we are forcing our kids back onto bikes, especially front seats and how unsafe is all that, blah blah blah. I should think some people even have strong views about trailers.

We have come to conclusion that we will have to make compromises in considering what we end up buying as nothing will suit all of our needs. It's now deciding which things are more important to us and which we can make compromises on, which is proving to be difficult

[meic]

A good strategy for the getting back in the trailer is to leave the trailer a short walk from the entertainment.
After a short walk (kicking and screaming) away from the swings, they are quite happy to get back in the trailer and the trailer isnt connected to the departure.

It may be your intent to only go out on sunny days. My daughter would have none of that!

If it becomes an integral part of your child's life then riding in the rain will happen quite often.

OK for them in the trailer while poor daddy gets soaked to the bones outside.

I am frequently told that bike trailers are "The most dangerous vehicles on the roads"

[hubgearfreak]

I am frequently told that bike trailers are "The most dangerous vehicles on the roads"

if you believe that they travel fast enough and have enough mass to kill people, yes.

if i drove a tank, or a bulldozer, would it be the hatchbacks that are dangerous?

people that say that RWR are RWR

Rude
Word
Removed

[glueman]

We found the useful period for trailers and child seats is quite short. Children rarely want to sit in a trailer when the view from a seat calls, and don't like being strapped into a childseat once a trailer bike or a kiddieback tandem is a possibility. The mistake is to see the accessory as a way of 'keeping the family cycling' because the reality rarely pans out that way. The compromises for a touring cyclist carrying children are great enough that it's better to think of it as a way of getting the kids into the fresh air than the parents doing what they've always done.
When you arrive at your refreshment stop ready for a break the child will just be waking up and ready to play. When you labour up a hill and get hot the kids will still be cold and while you have a view of the countryside, their's will be the mudguard or your backside. Once kids take to pedals things get easier but bear in mind they'll tire quickly and have different priorities to you. If you're ready for all those things and still want to cycle with children you'll enjoy yourselves!

[eileithyia]

Yep getting the kids integrated is a complex issue.

The trailer was a great for a short period and for very cold or inclement weather. However the downside is they do not see such a good view and whilst two adult might be able to manhandle it around a particularly difficult obstruction on a cycle path, one may not be able to and that to me is huge disadvantage (of the bike path) Because to my mind that defeats the object of family friendly cycle trails.

We did not find it dangerous on the road, it never ran down a passing motorist, pedestrain etc., and as it was such a spectacle most cars drivers did not know what they were facing they overtook rather more cautiously than usual.

When Andrew progressed onto bike seat I was able to buy rain cover for a buggy. Not the all in one clear plastic type affair, but a hooded type of cape that had hooks which I was able to secure around the sides of the seat so just his face was protruding, not unlike a cycle cap with integrated hood. It also meant I could tuck extra blankets inside to keep him warm. However these days there is an even bigger market in good quality children's out door clothing and at one stage he had an all in one rain suit which kept the rain and cold out.

I do not recall having trouble luring him back into the trailer/child seat away from the park or other attractions, I guess there is the bribe of the next attraction; sweet shop, tea stop, going home etc. Once out and about they get used to being called away to move on to the next thing, and how many kids are dragged from the park screaming and kicking to get into a car to be driven home, I would not let it worry you.

As for adverse comments, well I am a cyclist and have been for too many years now, adverse comments fall on deaf ears I am too used to all the stuff I have had from work colleagues over the years, my family just know better than to comment!
If you believe in what you are doing is the right thing then do not let it affect you.

As you say a front mounted seat has limited life span, and we certainly had no problem interacting with Andrew when he was in a rear mounted seat, it was easier than communicating when he was in the back seat of the car!

We never thought to take a puschair with us anywhere, i guess there was no need. Up to 18 months he could be carried into cafe/shop/to a swing, after that he could walk to such destinations.

[GavinC]

We bought a front mounted child seat for our daughter when she was 9 months old (she's now 22months) and she loves going out on it. We went for a Bobike MIni http://www.bobike.nl/ because it's stem mounted, rather than top tube - we use it on a mixte framed bike. It also has the option of a windscreen to protect your child from the elements.

While a front mounted seat does mean that you can intereact with your child more and they've got something to look at too, IMHO they're not without their disadvantages which - for me at least - preclude their use for longer rides. The main issues were to do with riding position. I had to lower the saddle somewhat so that I could touch the floor (as the child seat in front of you means you can't jump forward off the saddle when you stop). And you end up pedalling with your knees sticking out a bit to avoid hitting them on the bottom of the child seat. When we got the seat, I had flat bars and downtube gear levers on the bike and it was very awkward as the seat was in the way. To overcome this I ended up fitting all-rounder bars and bar end shifters. Finally, you've got to take into consideration that you're carrying a fair bit of extar weight high up on the handlebars, which can adversely affect the handling. To be honest, I would have thought that you'd be pushing it to carry a three year old in one.

Gav

[hamster]

Interesting difference of opinions! My boys loved the trailer (Burley Bee), and only got moved out when it was simply too crowded.
No1 son then moved onto the back of the tandem at 5 1/2 and No2 stayed in the trailer until a lucky find allowed us to buy tandem No2, which now has kiddycranks.

Try a trailer hire and see how it works for you. They can wriggle, sleep, play with toys, eat, drop things, and all in comfort.

[StirlingCrispin]

I use a LOCT with Thump.
He's four now, but friends use it with their two year olds etc.

http://www.loct.co.uk/

Not cheap but opens up all opportunities for all sorts of adventures. Recommended.

[markmax]

All of this information is great stuff and whilst we saw the advantages in front and rear seats before posting, it is interesting to see different views but in particular, the use of trailers and the pros and cons there and more importantly to us, the age of children and what they can use. I had considered the difficult part as being at an age where too old for a front/rear bike seat but too young to ride themselves and there are ideas to overcome this.

Unfortunately, our position has changed a little. When I said we had city/commuter bikes, we hadn't yet bought them but were all set to go with our LBS having been fitted out etc. Finances dictate otherwise at the moment so we may have to keep our cyclocross bikes. These have drop bars and it was what we were taking the girls out on in rear seats. People use them for a bit of touring too so pulling a trailer would be no problem. There is only one front seat you can use on drop bars, as far as my research tells me but correct me if I am wrong and that's the iBert seat. To my mind, as it fits on the stem if there is enough space on the stem, it seems you can attach it to the bike but in practise, how is cycling with a child like this going to work when you are in a lower position as opposed to upright positioning on hybrids? I can't really imagine it. I have no idea of the cost of changing to straight bars, thinking of other options. A cyclocross bike has a shorter top tube than a racer or road bike so if we did have straight bars, then we will have more of an upright position to use something like the LOCT as StirlingCrispin suggested, especially for our eldest daughter.

We could sell the cyclocross bikes but we only got them in 2009 and for the spec/quality of bike, we would be selling to buy a cheaper bike.

I looked at some cycling holidays and as people suggested, trailers are for hire there so we could use those on holidays but I still think they would be difficult to use on our typical rides with all these obstacles and things and the children are even further away from us than on back seats.

So many things to consider!